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Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

There are flat vines and ribbon vines,and right now I am dealing with a flat vine. My question is I wonder if environment plays a role in development of this occurance of this problem, and/or which includes soil conditions, weather conditions, heat or cold conditions, or overall climate itself, such as how many flat vines occur on the east coast vs. the west coast per given season.Genetics it seems must play a role also, as I am having the problem on a 961 Daletas 2001 plant, and I also have a 838.5 Hoomis 2003 plant ( 961 x self ) that has also developed flat. I wonder if anyone else has experienced problems with this particular genetic, or if possibly it may be my environment I am exposing my plants to this season. Some input on other genetics/ plants going flat this current season or in past seasons, may hopefully give us all some insight into this seemingly uncontrolable variable of giant pumpkin growing.....Thanks James Kane

5/30/2004 3:57:34 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

James,
I think it's strictly a genetic predisposition. Flat, double, ribbon, what have you, vines..seem to occur to a wide variety of folks in all kinds of different environments and situations.
There may be some common denominator if one took the time to research it but I would think the odds of finding one, or one that is significant, are slim. Just my 2 cents....

5/30/2004 7:30:17 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

I seem to remember Brian C mentioning this problem in connection with the 846 Calai and also the only ribbon vine I had grew on an 846 remake anyone else had similar experience?

5/30/2004 7:50:04 AM

[email protected]

This trait does seem to demostrate itself in the 846.

5/30/2004 8:37:12 AM

wisconsin rapids WI

I had a flat vine on my 1076.5 Werner this year and the 846 is in its lineage two generations back

5/30/2004 9:07:25 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I don't believe in giving my plants L.S.D. when they are still so young. Bad things can happen just like that.

Seriously now.. is it really genetic related? 40 Ounce asked me if any other 961's did this also, and if it's a genetic thing. I'm lucky to only have one, in '94, so I have really no idea.

5/30/2004 12:09:40 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

ON A SIDE NOTE...IF COLORADO SPRINGS DOES NOT MANAGE TO EEK OUT A BONUS MEASURABLE SHOWER EARLY THIS MORNING...IT APPEARS THAT MAY OF 2004 WOULD GO DOWN IN THE RECORD BOOKS TIED FOR THE DRIEST MAY OF RECORD...I.E. A "TRACE" WHICH LAST OCCURRED DURING MAY OF 1899...I.E.105 YEARS AGO. IF COLORADO SPRINGS DOES RECEIVE SOME MEASURABLE PRECIPITATION
EARLY THIS MORNING...THEN PUEBLO MAY CHALLENGE THE 2ND DRIEST MAY OF RECORD WHICH WAS .06 INCHES SET BACK IN 1918.

That was of the NWS... hmmmm... possibly weather related also? I better go look closely at mine....

5/30/2004 12:18:55 PM

Walkerton Ont

i think i have a flat vine on my 1029 nesbit, the main vine is about 1 foot and a half and the first foot seamed flat looking and wide and then about a inch of new growth was skinny and looking to go flat. errr and it was one of my best plants. Its nice looking all well

5/30/2004 12:42:55 PM

nanaimo,B.C,Canada

I'm growing the 842 eaton and it has a flat vine. Wonder if the secondary mains will be flat also?

dave

5/30/2004 1:26:26 PM

No Place Special

I second that on the 842 Eaton.... mine is flat also. Is taking a secondary as a new main the best way to go? So far it looks like secondaries will be normal.

5/30/2004 3:08:00 PM

Oliphant Fce. PA.

Im growing a plant from a 519 staring, the main vine seems alright but the first side vine looks like a ribbon with alot of leaves on the ends,did anyone ever have one like that.growing good but never seen one like that.

5/30/2004 6:33:19 PM

ontario

I have 2-735 Pukos growing....one has gone flat..its not the end of the line, just re-prune and go for it....last year I gave up on a 1230 Daletas that went flat vine...in September after not tending it much I decided to tape the pumpkin....went 801.5 lbs at Clarence Ny......later I wished I had cared for it more....flat vines not a death sentence, just abit more work...don't give up.....

5/30/2004 6:44:54 PM

Walkerton Ont

Like what kind of work is there involve, i need to know what i am getting into. hehe

5/30/2004 8:17:16 PM

ontario

Cory retraining a secondary to take over as a new main.....sometimes it takes severall attempts, some secondary will go flat too ...??

5/30/2004 8:58:23 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

Regarding 842 Eaton: I pulled one last year that flat vined on me. Now I wish I'd have let it go to see what it would've done...
I have one going this year...one sign of flat vine yet...

Frank

5/30/2004 10:03:34 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Just what does everyone consider "flat"? I have 4 plants that *may* fit the category but I certainly don't see the rationale to pull anything.
My mains are more oval-shaped, thinner and wider, but sure looks like plenty of room in the vine for water, nutrients, etc. to channel on thru. I would consider "flat" about 1/2" or less between bottom and top of the vine. That would seem to be cutting it close, in my eyes anyway.
Thoughts?

5/31/2004 12:04:38 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Kyle, the vine that I am classifying as a flat vine is approx. 1/2 inch between top & bottom , and is approx. 1 1/2 inches wide. The vine is also approx. 3.5 feet long from the stump and uniformly flat. I have also dealt with ribbon vines, as years ago I had main vine that was 8 inches wide, 2 inches tall, and would just split itself apart constantly before dividing into 3 vines that were also ribbons....I feel a ribbon is by far worse than a flat vine, but I would prefer to have neither.. As this is my first real experience with a true flat which will shoot out 1 leaf at one junction, two leaves at the next, then one , then two again and so on... And the vine is very brittle and will snap or kink very easily if you try to manipulate it the way you want it to turn. which is never a good thing when fruit is set....JK

5/31/2004 2:07:06 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

And oh, my secondaries that are coming off of the stump that are developing also are showing the trait of the staggered leaf development which is the ribbon trait, / one leaf then two leaves at each junction...Another backup plant has been put in for this patch which is my best patch soil wise, but I will give the 961 a chance to right itself in the next week or so....JK

5/31/2004 2:18:53 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Wonder if anyone has grown a flat vine with any success with the plant not actually having come out of it's flat vine chacter ????

5/31/2004 2:22:51 AM

Indiana

Well, I am not sure its a genetic trait that causes the flatvine. I have planted my fair share of plants, and have only had about 3 flatvines. I think its an environmental problem in plants that are genetically predisposed to be susceptible to flatvining. So in otherwords I am saying that I think its caused by certain climactic series in plants that have the gene that allows flatvining.

Tom

5/31/2004 2:23:31 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

oops....character ??

5/31/2004 2:25:33 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Tom...what you just said was that it's still genetic, just expressed *because* of environmental factors :0)

5/31/2004 2:52:31 AM

Farmington, Utah

Could it be small traces of 2-4D in the air. I know that some trees, when young, have a genetic predisposition to going ribbon on new growth when contacted by small amounts of 2-4D. Just wondering.

5/31/2004 9:20:04 AM

[email protected]

I injected a vine intentionally with trace amounts of 2,4-D last year to explore the growth regulating effect. The subject vines grew like all heck. Of the three vines, none flat vined. All 3 vines were on an 845 Nesbitt. The same genetic cross as the 842 Eaton. This proves nothing one way or the other.

Though for the record, I've only seen one flat vine & it was in an area of no cultivated turfgrass.

5/31/2004 10:14:55 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

FYI, by the definition above, my 842 Eaton last year was a ribbon vine...
didn't know there really was a distinction between flat & ribbon. I guess I've never grown a flat vine but have had a few ribbons over the years...none of which have given me anything (fruitwise)...
Frank

6/1/2004 9:42:45 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

My 914 Wentzell has officially "flat-vined" by my own definition :(
Time to yank 'er...

6/1/2004 6:17:44 PM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Thank you to everyone who has responded to the question of the flat vine problems that are going on unfortunately with us few select growers. Anyone else experiencing the flat problem, it would sure be interesting to know what genetic you are growing, and what experience you are having with your plant.... Thanks JK.

6/1/2004 11:40:39 PM

Utah

I'm in the flat vine club again this year. It is on my 782.5 Stucker (940 Mombert x 801.5 Stelts). one of my four plants. Last year it was on my 500 Carlson (846 Calai x self) one of six plants.

6/2/2004 8:59:01 AM