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Grittyville, WA

Curious where the weight gains are coming from.... wider shoulders, wider midsection, longer from stem to blossom, or thickness of the pumpkin hull. I could guess based on the few years I've gone to weigh offs but I'd rather hear what more experienced growers think.

What are the specific traits that have changed or is everything the same, just bigger now?

Thanks.

2/5/2022 7:59:18 AM

Syracuse, NY

All of the above, I presume - additionally, for y'all's consideration, the seeds'weight and those associated tissues therein could be a 'meh'-yet-determining factor in supplemental downward force at the scale;

Striving to pollinate the female flower as much as possible may result in more of the available seeds-to-be to become a reality, thereby becoming more real-time pounds. I'd rather have a fruit en route that I know there are 700 seeds within than one with 350 seeds within, yadig?

Probably the 2520 Schmit is a good example of your query & also the imprinting of a pumpkin on its grower - as his beard gets bigger, so too do his pumpkins. I'm relying on his great sense of humor, there and that picture is the ultimate, as well; Even the photographer is IN the picture, cleverly disguised as a shadow. Think also of how much the seeds + 'dangly stuff' could be weighing within - eric g

2/5/2022 3:45:43 PM

Syracuse, NY

Whooooops!!!

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=328566

2/5/2022 3:47:28 PM

Western NY

I'd say everything is the same as it used to be for shapes, just scaled up. We really haven't selected for boats vs. wheels through the years.

Click on the "Weighoffs" link (top left on main page, or in the drop-dorn box here), scroll all the way down to the bottom and check out the pics from 1999/2000. Those pumpkin shapes wouldn't be out of place at this year's weighoff.

2/5/2022 3:56:50 PM

Nova Scotia

My theory only from experience, was back in the 1990s when somehow a "cream/white" gene appeared into the genetics and those specimens weighed heavier than the typical yellow/orange pumpkins. As well thick walled heavy pumpkins do not usually produce many seeds. The "balloons" I call them, yield above average seeds. Also a big massive pumpkin up front shoulders stem end is where thickest part is. Blossom end the weakest as many have experienced with splits.

2/5/2022 4:47:32 PM

Joliet, IL

Selective breeding. The best plants are becoming better at producing the desired trait....weight/size. Certain seeds have dna ligned up for better vascular systems especially in phloem capacity to keep the flow at a higher rate to feed the beast. And the beast's, (pumpkin's) dna to have longer periods of early cell division before final pumpkin cell division of flesh shuts off. And dna for larger cell structure to hold more moisture. And dna for thicker flesh thickness and consistant higher percent heavier otc fruit progeny. And dna for extended days of growth before final fruit weight gain shut down.

Simply put, think of selective breeding of the plants as producing better athletes which produce babies that have advanced dna with better odds of replicating the desired traits. And similar to a proven winning race horse going to stud and mated with prime stock mares, the winning genes are passed forward. But only a few magic silver bullet combinations produce a progeny that have the dna ligned up for producing at the highest potential and land in the hands of the best trainers to win the derby. And once in a while, a triple crown winner happens. It wasn't by accident. But years of selective breeding. The entire gene pool over years has been elevated to now most seeds have what it takes to pop a silver bullet. But some seeds have the "it" factor where many progeny with the deired trait are produced. These proven seeds increase a grower's odds of obtaining a new personal best and get grown the most. But no guarantees. Soil science, growing methods, shared knowledge are all so critical to higher weights. But increased weights in my mind are due to selective breeding and good fortune for 1 of those few upper echelon silver bullet seeds actual seeing dirt in the hands of a great trainer.



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pce.12502

2/6/2022 10:02:17 AM

Joliet, IL

So to stay on subject to the posted question, the weight gains in my opinion are not in the structure of the fruit, but dna that controls the vascular system, the fruit sink demand, the fruit cell division longevity, the fruit maturity time lengthening, thicker/density of flesh dna and stronger and larger fruit cells sizes dna.

2/6/2022 10:10:24 AM

Kutztown, PA

shazzy - I take exception the "silver bullet" reference :).

I don't think weight gains can be attributed to one sing aspect e.g. phloem tissue development or any other. All of the attributes shazzy mentioned are integrated into one system. Any change in the size of one must be proportional in all of the others to be successful. For example, it wouldn't do much good to have an abundance of phloem tissue pumping sugar to a pumpkin that didn't have the cell structure or capacity to use it.

2/6/2022 2:21:43 PM

Syracuse, NY

I haven't fully, yet, but read that article; Any love is good love, so a pumpkin will take what it can get...eg

2/6/2022 4:25:25 PM

Grittyville, WA

The 1885.5 has an interesting shape. Havent seen that shape in a WR pumpkin before! A sort of hubbardy thing going on. Mobeymikes pumpkin had a different shape at the blossom end also. A acorn shape, kinda pointy blossom end -- not much ribs/kinda flat. I thought that was interesting. Some of these traits do seem to be genetic, yet its hard to know what to breed for.

2/6/2022 9:15:15 PM

Syracuse, NY

Next step = an anti-gravity pumpkin patch, and not one you stick onto the fruit, lol---eg

2/6/2022 10:33:16 PM