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Centennial Colorado

Hi all,
I am going to be starting the 282 Scherber and 1409.5 Miller seeds in about a month. I am wondering the best way to germinate older seeds? Should I increase, stay the same or decrease temperature?
Thanks,
Leif

3/8/2021 3:30:12 PM

Upper Strasburg, PA

In my experience, the ideal moisture is the biggest difference between older seeds and newer seeds. You’re basically in a race against rot, so less moisture is better. Those seeds aren’t quite to the age where the germination rate falls off a cliff, so you shouldn’t need to do much different. Just be careful about soaking them for too long or over watering while you’re waiting for them to pop. Definitely do not use the paper towel & bag method, they will rot faster than they will germinate.

3/8/2021 3:47:54 PM

On a cliff in the desert

You might want to try gibberellic acid. You can buy it on Amazon.

3/8/2021 4:57:39 PM

President - GPC

Treat it like you would any other seed. I would not use GB Acid, my 500 Wallace sprouted in 3 days in its 13th year. Good Luck, would make for a nice cross.

3/8/2021 5:54:04 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Leif
couple things to help with germinating old seeds.
File the edges well and consistent. 6 hrs before you start the germination use hydrogen peroxide, make sure your seed coat is clean, so dilute a teaspoonful in about 1/2 a cup of warm water. soak the seed in the solution for about an hour. take it out and rinse. you can use a paper towel to hold it under water rather than it floating.
Then, if your going to use GB Acid, which is great but be very careful as too much will create anomalies if and when it sprouts. I would recommend just a pinch in a 1/4 cup of water. again for an hour. then into its last soak, with warm water and then if germinating with the paper towel method, keep the air temp at 85 degrees, And keep 1/4 of the bag open. If you don't use the paper towel method, then you direct dirt plant then up the temp a bit to 88. As Truckin says, DO NOT OVER WATER OR KEEP TOO WET I use a Styrofoam incubator with a fan so I can keep my temps bang on. For now I would practice a few rounds just to get everything dialed in

3/8/2021 6:56:40 PM

Centennial Colorado

What I normally do is just plant my seeds in moist seed starting soil at about 85 degrees. I have only tried on new seeds and the oldest valuable on being about 5 years old. I have tried older, but they weren't as valuable, so I didn't take extra precautions.

3/8/2021 8:19:16 PM

Grittyville, WA

I believe the advice given so far is good advice. There can be mold issues. You can rinse the seed preferably with chlorinated water and put it on a new paper towel every 24 hours when the root starts to move it can be put in your peat mix I have had success with the seed being the cots halfway above the soil and misting it with a dilute solution of water with H202. H202 hurts fungus and bacteria more than it hurts plant cells. Or fully buried should work also as long as things are sufficiently sterile and never overwatered. The advantage of having the cots halfway out of the ground is you actually can even mist a few drops of water onto the seed because there is enough dry air to balance everything out. As long as you dont grow any fungus you are good to go. And if you do see any fungus at all then rinse the seed thoroughly and start over again in new peat mix or onto a new paper towel.

Hopefully you can keep an eye on agteacher, either on his mistakes-- hopefully not-- or success:

http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=322744

3/8/2021 9:18:22 PM

Centennial Colorado

I will do that. Fortunate to have hydrogen peroxide with the lack of availability. These seeds are the hard shelled ones, so I will sand them to increase chance of germination. Thanks to all who have commented. It is interesting that hard shell is no longer as common as it used to be.

3/8/2021 9:29:35 PM

Grittyville, WA

By seed I mean the seed embryo. For old seeds the seed coat gives too many places for fungus to hide and grow. It helps to remove it.
Note: only old seeds should be germinated this way because there is a risk of damaging the root tip when removing the seed coat for young vigorous seeds this intense intervention is not going to be worth risking accidental damage. For vigorous young seeds it's probably better to just let nature do its thing.

3/8/2021 9:29:39 PM

Grittyville, WA

With correct temps and soil moisture I think 5-10 year old seeds might germinate just fine. Certainly those under 5 years old should still be vigorous. I used this method on a 15 year old seed. At that age or older... the extra care and efforts described here can be necessary.

3/8/2021 9:35:54 PM

Syracuse, NY

Here's an idea for EVERYbody - Since we are all concerned with fungus and rot when doing this, let's all try some FUNGICIDE in the seed-starting mix' water that is used to 'begin', lol with; i have some Daconil from about 10 years ago just to TRY this with, and probably it's been done before, but if you start a fire, have the extinguisher right there, eh?

Use it at the recommended rate - Any time you do otherwise, you're just adding another variable to what could be the 'solution';

Concerning H2O2, if it's 3% from the drug store, i've never diluted if further and ostensibly have had no problems (SEE ABOVE) - I've also been noticing lately the possible PREDATION of failed seeds in Mycorrhizae that i always use in my SS mix - think about it > you dead? you food! so, if a seed fails it becomes food for the fungus, (else it becomes a symbiotic 'Home on the Roots' relationship, lol) so, if we are NOT using Myco in the SS mix, ARE using fungicide to kill any fungus otherwise AND sterilizing the seed in H2O2 3% for several hours (yeah, as mentioned, up to 6 is good), and THEN adding Myco and so on to the planting hole MIX since and once the seed is of course established, perhaps we'll see better seed-starting results all around, for ALL years. I wish you and me lotsa luck! eric g (*_*)

3/9/2021 6:04:12 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

I've grown a few older seeds, and in my experience they sometimes take longer, stay consistent, don't be a digger and like TruckPkn said, don't overdo the moisture content. They will rot.

Good luck, always fun to grow them, it's like a little time vault.

3/9/2021 10:01:14 AM

Centennial Colorado

I have some old test seeds, so I will give them a try. Some are from 2012 and others from 2006. Will try to get it right.

3/9/2021 12:38:01 PM

Lloydminster/AB

I wouldn’t call those seeds old. I pulled some seeds out of my freezer that were from 2000 and they germinated fine. You stand a very good chance if you follow Eddy’s instructions.
Storage conditions matter a lot.

3/9/2021 9:33:58 PM

Centennial Colorado

I have been storing them in a wine cellar, but before I have no idea. That is why I was concerned.

3/9/2021 10:02:40 PM

Syracuse, NY

If you happen to get one to 'sort of' sprout, be aware that not always does the actual radicle (seed root tip) sprout properly, and this applies to ALL seeds, but the root material AROUND and near the tip also has the ability to go along and do just fine. This may have been called 'club root' in years past; It just takes longer and they (2, 3 or more of them) go outward rather than downward, but if it's an 869 Calai or an 801.5 Stelts or similar, you go with it! Good Luck. eg

3/9/2021 11:35:47 PM

Princeville, IL

In my diary I had a post about trying to germinate some older seeds( 1995-2009) using the method of removing seed coat and putting on a damp paper towel with about a 87 degree temp. Out of 12 seeds only 2 germinated ( a 2007 and a 2009) so can’t say I was real successful with that method. I did try that method with newer seeds ( 2017-2020) and had 100 % germination so it does work.

3/10/2021 9:48:07 AM

Grittyville, WA

Did they get fuzzy... I just threw a 903 Dill 2005 in last night. We will know in a week if I can walk the walk...

3/10/2021 12:49:02 PM