From

Location

Message

Date Posted

North Of The Border

Pumpkin record is 2624.6, average pumpkin, even for varieties that grow large is maybe 25. It is 105 times the size of an average one.
Large varieties of tomatoes grow to 1 pound. Maybe we will see a 105 pound tomato?
Large watermelons are 15+, so we may see a 1500 pound watermelon in the future.
A cantaloupe could reach 500 pounds.
A carrot could reach 50 pounds.
A long gourd could reach 100+ feet in length!

Not reality yet, but maybe?

What are your opinions?
I think far more genetics would have to be recorded for theese to happen, but most are possible. (Just not the long gourd, cause who has that kind of trellis?)

2/8/2021 5:07:04 PM

Centennial Colorado

Bushel gourd I would say could be the future heavy weight. Much more thick and harder to damage.

2/8/2021 5:13:30 PM

Bethlehem CT

I agree bushel gourd's may have the most untapped potential. I grew my first bushel gourd back in 2013 and even then I can remember thinking that these have the potential to go over 500 pounds. Coming from me that is pretty optimistic. I have been a skeptic for Atlantic Giant growth potential for at least 15 years. I was pretty sure no one could surpass 1500, and now look at where we are.

2/8/2021 6:55:45 PM

Grittyville, WA

The original strain for big C. maximas was 100-200 lbs or so and the growing techniques of
William Warnock got one to hit 400 lbs. I would use that as your baseline.

https://worldsfairchicago1893.com/2020/11/26/ontarios-mammoth-squash-at-the-1893-worlds-fair/

2/8/2021 7:26:30 PM

Grittyville, WA

Note about above: The pics look so similar to the strain are growing today. His method was similar to a 150 sq ft patch...? I think he planted three plants in a 300-400 ft area? A 20' diameter circle of manure with 3 plants if I remember correctly.

2/8/2021 7:34:00 PM

Plymouth, MN

There are going to be limits due to the physiology and genetics of the plants and the length of the season.
AGs are outliers with their extreme size due to the plant's ability to make a secondary root system. If a plant can't mimic an AG's ability to suck a massive amount of water into the plant, you aren't going to get such big fruit.

2/9/2021 11:28:31 AM

North Of The Border

Ok then. Using the record variety, it is still easily 10× bigger than average. A giant tomato could still top 20+ pounds. A cantaloupe could easily surpass 100, and a cucumber may eventually reach 50+. I think, at the time the 486, was an outlier, but, as the top 5 pumpkins show, 2500 is not an impossibility, and with some work, 2600.

Ok, cjb. The pumpkin does have a massive root system, but some fruit doesn't need that. The normal variety of pumpkins have similar to the giant variety in root systems. A good pie pumpkin plant will have 25 ft plus roots. The differences in root ing systems is taken into account with the weights being a % of the normal variety.

Gritty Kins, where did it show his patch?

2/10/2021 3:39:14 PM

Sharon, MA

Agreed that huge healthy root system seems to have an impact. The 470 BG was grown with a lot of emphasis on inclusion of useful Main and Secondary vine, tap roots, by burying and heavy feeding at every leaf node. Previously I had been relying on only the roots from the stump.

2/11/2021 2:33:39 PM

Sharon, MA

Gritty Kins.
Thanks so much for the link to the Nov 20 2020 Warnoch pumpkin article.

Steve

2/11/2021 3:11:16 PM

Stanwood, Washington

I think if as many growers grew tomatoes as grow giant pumpkins there would eventually be a 20 pound tomato.

2/11/2021 7:04:17 PM

Grittyville, WA

PG216 I researched it awhile ago. There is an old one page reference somewhere out there about his methods. It talked about him spreading composted horse manure in a circle. And here in modern times I think we also had Steve Geddes talk about spreading composted horse manure... But alas I am going off fallible memory here and dont have the citations... The info is out there. Somewhere.

2/11/2021 10:16:17 PM

Grittyville, WA

K found it. Bottom of the page:

http://www.sngpg.com/ag_history.aspx

He was quite clever, I think his methods can still be considered to be good 100 years later.

2/11/2021 10:57:36 PM

Grittyville, WA

pumpconn... the interesting thing about the mention of the 486 lb squash is that an editor might exaggerate one number but the mention of the diameter being in excess of 11 feet does correspond to a squash of that size. Two measurements that reinforce each other seems to suggest this is more than just a misprint.

 "A milk-white squash, weighing 486 pounds and measuring over 11 feet in circumference"

Grown in 1893. And how funny if the squash/pumpkin battle was confusing people way back then. Perhaps Warnock grew a 365 lb pumpkin and a 486 lb squash in the same year.

11 ft using the .001517 x circ inches ^ 2.61374 formula suggests he grew a squash that was about 10% light. Considering he did his pollinations in late July and harvested in early October, I wouldnt be surprised if they'd have come in avg % hvy or, in this case, a bit light. Nowadays we'd give them another month on the vine, and my belief is that a lot of the thickness of the hull comes from being on the vine for the "third trimester" (the period of growth from 67-100 days, or in a few cases up to 120 days).

Ok well that's enough about that.

2/12/2021 12:05:25 AM

Netherlands

Members of the cucurbita family have a totally different ratio between assimilates and sink strength than other veg such as tomatoes and carrots. The relation between the two for cucumbers is 0.35 meaning the plant has a higher demand for assimilates (such as sugars) than is available. This means a cucumber is only getting about 35% of what it needs and therefore only reaches about 35% of its potential. For tomatoes this is 0.50, meaning the the tomato plant is already getting about half of what it needs so the potential to grow to extreme sizes by pruning and adding fertilizers, etc is limited compared to cucumbers. In the case of root crops such as carrots, there is no advantage gained by pruning as they cannot be pruned, so they are reliant on fertilizers (and space) to reach their maximum size.
For this reason it will be very difficult to reach the enormous weights you mentioned for other vegetables other than the melon family. An increase in weight will have to rely on carefully selecting the heaviest each year and making the right crosses, something that does not happen in heavy root vegetables as I have never heard of anyone using their own seed or having a breeding program.

2/12/2021 5:52:01 AM

Bethlehem CT

Based on all this talk about roots and how important they are,I wonder how a tomato would grow if instead of staking it,it's vine was buried and rooted. You could make a hammock for the tomato like some of the melon growers use. You could even try to root the vine again past the tomato for even more roots.

2/12/2021 6:25:53 AM

Bethlehem CT

Brad that is interesting stuff.

2/12/2021 6:26:54 AM

Grittyville, WA

I can comment about this also. I can attest that other than an increased risk of slugs or vermin, tomatoes can be grown resting on the ground like a pumpkin with vines allowed to spread along the ground. Ive done this and I have seen additional rooting and I think it has the potential to keep blossoms size from tapering down the higher you get on the plant. It could be a highly effective method. Disease from rainsplash onto the leaves would be the only problem but since the tomato its itself already needs to be covered, it's not a bad idea nor a big deal to just extend this protection to the whole plant. That's my two cents plus all the spare change in my pocket. Maybe now you can buy youself a cup of cheap coffee.

2/12/2021 7:52:30 AM

North Of The Border

GKins, those are al the same things modern day growers are talking about, but written 100 ago!

What about grafting? Would a cantaloupe be graftable, or would you be able to graft in a way that the first few rootstocks side vines are allowed to grow, to have secondary roots, and basically graft a fruit on to a different plant?

I agree growing tomatoes on the ground may be a the future, but this would not be necessary as saladDoug proved this year, roots are the most important.

2/12/2021 4:44:47 PM

Syracuse, NY

All right, somebody grow a tomato plant in two 55-gallon barrels on top of each other, bury it as it grows and let it root all it wants to - no laying it down needed and plant height/tomato weight is limited only by the plant's ability to root and be f(root)ful. If it needs a larger circumference of rooting area, then anything else as such will do. NO need to berate me on that it's been done before; I read and admired the SaladDoug diary and was highly-entertained. Watering should be easy, at least for the first barrel, lol---eg

2/13/2021 12:39:24 PM

Grittyville, WA

eg might try growing tomatoes :)

2/14/2021 9:00:52 AM

Syracuse, NY

That DID cross my mind, as I DO have the barrels - 3 extra ones in fact, that have become weathered and break easily.
Maybe as a side project, taking my own advice for once in
and amongst a couple of giant-headed sunflowers...yeahhh...

2/14/2021 1:09:34 PM

Netherlands

In the forties it was done with giant corn. The stalk was buried up to 6 feet with wooden casing around it. It took 60 years to beat that world record, which incidently was done without burying the stalk, but that was with another strain of corn and inside a special heated construction.

To water the lower barrels simply drill some holes at intervals in a pipe with the bottom closed off and shove it down the inside of the barrels and water from the top.

2/16/2021 3:53:30 AM

Syracuse, NY

I would do mine in the 80s; The 40s are too cold, lol---that is very interesting and thanks for the info! eg Big Zacs from about 2004 maybe they'll sprout. Brings back memories of the Wall O' Water - really cool. Hmmm...I'd better save my brain for work today, lol.

2/16/2021 2:10:25 PM