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Ontario, Canada

Has anyone tried using speed sprout to start their seeds? It is a gel which is supposed to help the seeds to germinate faster, at a higher rate, and reduce transplant shock.

check out
http://www.megagro.com/big/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&ObjectGroup_ID=1&Product_ID=24&CatID=19
for more details.

12/1/2004 4:47:52 PM

Syracuse, NY

i am thinking they will be out of stock soon, simply because of AG pumpkin growers!
i called it right away, but got the answering machine...
i'll order tomorrow when the hours are appropriate.
i'll be testing my '04 seeds soon anyway, and i have always wanted to have a product such as this to sprout my seeds in.
T H A N K S!!!!!!!
i mean, this could be revolutionary>>>>>>>>>>>>> eric

12/1/2004 7:30:01 PM

Indiana

Not trying to be an a** but just try some moist (not wet) potting soil and keep it warm. Miracle gro mix works well. I seem to see alot of people worrying too much about starting seeds. I looks like alot of people "love their seeds to death". I always just lightly file the edges to help them out of their shells and soak them overnight in some warm water, Then plant them point down. The seeds want to grow! I think alot of the extra things we do truly hinder them. Im not sure that filing them really helps but it doesnt hurt either.
Steve

12/1/2004 11:01:00 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Hey that is the same company that makes GA. I have done germination tests with their full strength stuff and it sure helps with plant germination speed.

Sean Turner grew a 900 lber his first year trying with GA.

12/2/2004 10:53:18 PM

New Hampshire

I agree with moondog. Some of my best germination results is when I put seeds in potting soil. warter, and give it 85 degress.

12/3/2004 7:29:21 AM

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Is there an advantage to getting a seed to come out of it's shell and sprout up quickly as opposed to starting a day or two earlier and letting it go at a somewhat normal pace? Does it make a difference down the road for plant growth/pumpkin growth?

12/3/2004 9:18:47 AM

Cologne / Germany

I think the only advantage is for older seeds that might be difficult to germinate after a few years of storage, just to give them some help. Newer seeds should germinate without additional stuff or if not the problem is in the seed :)

12/3/2004 5:02:00 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

$11.23 UPS charge to send a $9.95 item that could fit in an envelope?
No way man!

12/3/2004 7:31:31 PM

Ontario, Canada

Speed sprout is only $2.50 canadain from t&t seeds

12/3/2004 8:07:34 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Anyone can make these up for themself. Zip-Loc sandwich bag & some polymer gel.

When purchased in a 25 lb bag the cost of polymer gel is about $5.00/lb. Each bag probably contain a quarter ounce dry so $.11 for gel plus another $.05 for the bag.

Since a half teaspoon of water has essentialy the same value as spit, I'd say the manufactured cost is 16 cents without the colored card. That card & the packaging exceeds the content value by twice.

So $.16 + $.32 = $.48 ready to ship.

We can ship seeds all day every day for $.60

So delivered cost before margin is $1.08. Dang! Why didn't I think of this one????

12/3/2004 9:45:38 PM

Syracuse, NY

ANYWAY, i think experimentation is key to the success of this "spobby" (sport/hobby). we do all that we can, all season long, to get these things as big as possible as quickly as possible, etc. etc. my main interest here is to have a seed sprout in something that looks to be CLEAR so that root growth can be observed, and, gee, NOT have to re-plant it, and if the seeds sprout any better than usual, i'll be sure to let you all know.
i had though at one time of finding out abaout AGAR, that stuff they use for growing molds and bacteria in the lab.....

12/5/2004 12:00:57 AM

Syracuse, NY

i just today ordered some. 3 packets; $9.95 and a dollar shipping. so, $10.95 for the total, and it was shipped out to me ASAP. i'm all eager to sprout seeds in it.
will report. other peoples' price may vary slightly,
but it was not an arm and a leg. eric

12/14/2004 5:19:17 PM

Chicago, IL

Thanks Eric, for pointing me here. We make SpeedSprout, and would be delighted to have more pumpkin growers using both SpeedSprout and MegaGro. If you would like to try SpeedSprout, go to our website, www.SpeedSprout.com (or www.MegaGro.com) and use coupon code "SP39". This will lower the cost of shipping. For Canada, call us, or try T&T Seeds.

12/14/2004 8:54:06 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I e-mailed them and complained about the $11 shipping so they dropped it. It's now a $1 I think.

12/15/2004 7:03:08 AM

Syracuse, NY

speaking of sprouting, my 250.5 (794 Wronski X (50.4 Boyton)and 307 (Gerry 300 X SELF)are getting roots going in my first '04 winter old-fashioned germ. test. yay!
my 575 (950.4 X 767)
has not yet shown me da root, but it will!!! okay, now, back to waiting for SpeedSprout.......lol......

12/16/2004 12:31:51 AM

Syracuse, NY

ps-i began those seeds before i ever ordered Speed Sprout. i am literally waiting to GET my Speed Sprout.

12/16/2004 12:33:27 AM

Syracuse, NY

got my SpeedSprout!....lol.....unpacking......

12/21/2004 12:50:31 AM

Syracuse, NY

okay, so i thought maybe this new regimen would allow the seeds, ('04s, all my own) 4 of them, to sprout without any heat--it WAS part of the experiment. naturally, i was wrong--it might work at room temperature for other seeds like tomatoes or some other, room temperature-sproutable seeds, but not in my case with AGs.
after a five-day stay in the SpeedSprout product, there are no sprouts and upon opening i get a rotten milk smell.
okay, so, on to phase 2---i'll put the package over the heat register in my room, about 110-115 degrees intermittently...that aughtta get 'em going! in the meantime i will put another 4 seeds just like the first 4 in another packet, with heat right from the start....as we all know, 72 hours is the magic number, i have found......

12/26/2004 12:33:30 AM

Ontario, Canada

Does this mean that the speed sprout really works?

12/26/2004 12:22:05 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Eric,

I'd keep the seeds at 85-88 degrees regardless.

12/26/2004 1:28:23 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

been doing alot of test germinating, trying to find which method works best, lots of fun.

12/26/2004 4:09:52 PM

Syracuse, NY

oops! sorry, forgot people might actually read this anymore.
lol. so, yeah, there aren't any actual instructions on the
SpeedSprout package, other than put about twenty or so seeds in the package and keep it out of sunlight.
as i say, something like a tomato seed would probably
shoot right out of its shell in the stuff. i have not yet
put more seeds into the stuff with the register heat applied---i'll try to remember to do that tonight.
i totally agree, Tremor, as i am a big fan of those higher-than-usual germination temps! look at it this weigh, if you hold a seed in your hand on an average summer day, (i think my temperature would go up substantially if i had an 801.5 Stelts in my hand!) or in a room in your house, that is already like germination temperature right there, so i never feel that 90-95 is too high. 100, yeah, probably.
i guess if i ever have a group of seeds that do NOT germinate because of excessively high temperatures, i will have answered the question "how
high is too high?" i will put those seeds in some new SpeedSprout tonight...isn't that a cool name? "SpeedSprout"?

12/27/2004 6:56:42 PM

Syracuse, NY

okay, by tonight i meant tomorrow night, lol...
so, four more '04 Gerry seeds, unfiled, unsoaked,
because i shouldn't have to, placed into Speed Sprout
packet at 12:30 am on 12-29-04, over my room's heat register. let's see what happens....there was a little more air in the packet this time. i do believe that seeds do not have to have air at first, an anaerobic stage, but soon thereafter they do. or so i read somewhere. eric

12/29/2004 12:48:34 AM

Cologne / Germany

Found something similar at ebay over here called "hydro gel" or "aqua split", 5lbs for 5 bucks. My concern would be it´s not compact enough if you try to germinate your seeds. Using normal batting I had the seed shells opening before the tips came out in 2003 so the whole experiment went to the compost. However I´m going to give that gel a try with bulk seeds, anyway it´s winter..)

12/29/2004 7:52:02 AM

Syracuse, NY

man, this is interesting! "aqua split"....sounds like a
synchronized swimming move or something. lol.

especially since it DIDN'T work for me the first time,
now with the heat applied, even though intermittent,
like 10-12 minutes every 20-25, i don't know, at 110-115 degrees, they should pop right out of their shells but quickly this time. the only other step i can think of for the next attempt would be to file the seeds, soak them in hydrogen peroxide for about 8-10 hours prior to Speed Sprout, and/or remove the shells from at least two of the seeds.....and any combination of any of the above.
i'm gonna shut up now until i DO see some results, lol! eric

12/29/2004 12:24:55 PM

Syracuse, NY

okay, next step;
maintain a constant temperature of about 90 degrees.
apparently this doesn't work anything like what i am used to. perhaps a fluctuating temperature from a max. of 115
degrees down to around room temperature of about 70 degrees
is not working. i had figured that the temp. would have been moderated SOMEWHAT, but no, i guess not. the seeds, however, are not rotting or anything in the SpeedSprout material. normally by now there would be mushrooms growing in the lil' ziploc bag if it were even STERILE starting mix! lol. guess i'll have to get out the Gerry Germ-Buck and see if i can get it to do a constant temp. for me, like by laying the packet on top of the bucket lid, and adjusting accordingly.

1/3/2005 4:10:11 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Yikes! Poor Eric.....You done lost your touch boy! It's a good thing to get all this seed murdering out of your system in January. Can't be blowing it like this in April that's for sure!

1/3/2005 7:05:38 PM

Syracuse, NY

i thought i redeemed myself on this page yesterday about killing all my seeds!
maybe i accidentally swore or something, or hit "back"
before i actually "posted reply". yeah, this is an experiment. once i get it figured out i am hoping it will be of benefit to all! i think every time i check the seeds and there's no sprout i can turn around there's Target Dog gonna save the day, lol! too tired last night and a couple too many things to do in order to get the Gerry GermBuck
out and running. tonight i hope i get it going and
hit a constant 90 degrees on its top. soon, friends! eric

1/4/2005 4:51:01 PM

Ontario, Canada

I've just ordered some speed sprout. when it arrives i'll do some germination tests to see if it works.

1/4/2005 8:31:37 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Bottom heat...cheap Old Lady heating pad. Heat is too variable to trust for the first few days. Use a small thermometer, towels, etc to adjust. Line fluctuations of the house current will raise or lower the temperature a LOT. But the "twice the price" commercial propagation mats aren't much better.

1/4/2005 9:45:58 PM

Cologne / Germany

I use a fish tank thermometer set to 84 F and a yogurt maker (heated plastic box usually filled with jars) connected to it. Works excellent. 20 bucks stuff from ebay 2 years ago.

1/5/2005 6:47:47 AM

Syracuse, NY

okay, Germ-buck in action!
i do not want an electrical thing in the house unnecessarily, especially something **I** made, lol,
and last night proved too cold in the garage to keep up the temp. 79.9 is too cold for me, or my seeds! so i just put a metal trash can over it and the temp. stabled
at like 94-95 F*, tonight.
i know, a little warm, but i will adjust it, to like 93 F*.
i did not make any big effort to get all the air outta the SpeedSprout package, as the thermometer bulb-wire prevents it anyway. will report. oh, yeah, i used slightly different seeds, 2 each of 2 crosses; one of each cross has its shell snipped-off all the way 'round with a pair of TOEnail clippers, one of my favorite germ-tricks....'pal2

1/6/2005 1:22:52 AM

Ontario, Canada

I just recieved my speed sprout. And soon i'll begin testing. The packets are pretty small only big enough for 4 or 5 seeds

1/7/2005 4:45:53 PM

Syracuse, NY

cool, Benetton!
teamwork---this'll halve the time it takes to figure this stuff out.
uhhh, as of right now in NY it is 7:15 PM...so, another
5:45 h/m or so, lol, and we're at 48 hours at 93-95 degrees, where i've always had good luck with the seeds germinating and
messin' up the soil at 72 hours. i can't wait! eric

1/7/2005 7:17:55 PM

Syracuse, NY

hmmmm...72 hours and no sprouts.....

1/9/2005 1:57:49 AM

Syracuse, NY

okay, so i am now at the 5 days' mark, like
120 hours. it does not look like the seeds are gonna
sprout. i am just not doing something right that would make the Speed Sprout work. i may see about getting enough of it to fill a 4" peat pot and try it the semi-old-fashioned way,
but if i do that i will make a new post about it.
if anyone else has any luck with it, PLEASE MAKE A POST!
it would have been neat-o had it worked. i even opened the
little ziploc bag thing more for increased air flow.
perhaps i had them too warm, although i have sprouted many,
many seeds at 90-95 F* with no problem-o(s). later, eric g

1/11/2005 12:55:34 PM

Western NY

good luck, but after that amount of time, i doubt they are going to sprout. i just stumbled onto this thread, so i need to address a point made way earlier regarding the GA. even though there was a 900#er grown using the GA, all the seeds in it were useless, and last i emailed Sean, he kind of hinted that he thought the GA was to blame.

1/11/2005 1:20:39 PM

Syracuse, NY

i don't think this is any kind of Giberellic Acid
concoction. it may be, but the ingredient in the
packet is some kind of
"acrylate somethin' somethin' copolymer" i had thought it might have been like a silica
gel sort of compound, but that's not the case either.
poly amyl........SOMETHIN'!!!
by the weigh, i had a quantity of the giberellic acid
formulation from Micro-Flo, and you have to use it up or it goes rancid....eeeewwwwwww!!! pour it on if you got it!
well, within reason and via guidlines of what happens if you use too much, like sterile fruit......but, hey!!!

1/11/2005 4:16:22 PM

Ontario, Canada

Do you think using some jelleton with rooting hormone would work good?

1/11/2005 4:30:39 PM

That State Up North

Do not use anything with acrylate copolymer. The idea behind it is a scam. This substance has a high afinity for water, and will actualy cause the water potential relation to be in favor of the acrylate, and not your seeds, or plant roots. It will rob your plant of its water.
If you want to kick up your germination, a pre-soak in the desired hormone solution is the standard aproach.

Nic Welty

1/11/2005 5:29:26 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Hey Eric,

Are you sure those are seeds & not rocks?

95* is pretty darn hot. Especially since the seed is nearly in direct contact with the source. Bottom heat of 95* with a 4" Peat Pot sitting on it means the seed is probably in the 80's. Only the very bottom of the pot would be 95 & the rest of the soiless mix would be progressively cooler the closer to the seed (or top) you go.

1/11/2005 5:30:51 PM

Cologne / Germany

Yep, I would also be afraid of 95 F. I had poor germination results above 84 F many times.
That ebay stuff is "polyacrylamid". 1 gram mixed with water will result in 1 glass of gel. It also stores rooting hormones or fertilzer. But they do suggest to mix it with potting soil for seeds, not pure gel - this is intended for seedlings with roots.
I still don´t have it so no results this time :)

1/11/2005 5:38:51 PM

Cologne / Germany

Here´s the pic, before and after watering the polyacrylamid. If it doesn´t work for germinating seeds, I like the idea to add it to the soil though:
http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/b7/61/4c_1.JPG

1/11/2005 6:05:14 PM

Ohio

Floh, the fish tank thermometer sounds like a good idea i will try this

1/11/2005 6:14:10 PM

Cologne / Germany

Brooks, the fish tank thermometer is pretty sensitive. If set to 84 F, it usually turns the heating (up to 300 Watt)on at 82 F and off at 86 F automatically, so you don´t need to bother about the seeds. It has a sensor whith a 3 ft wire which you can use with whatever kind of heat source you have.

1/11/2005 6:28:54 PM

Syracuse, NY

okay, my mistake, although i do n't have it here with me, lol!
must be i saw the term acrylate copolymer somewhere,
probabl;y on the cereal box yesterday morning, lol!, and transposed the name to the post....yeah, that term
"polyacrylamid" soudns like it too.
man, typoes everywhere!
the thermometer bulb was in the packet WITH the seeds,
so i feel the temperature READING was accurate, but perhaps
i can still replace the present seeds with new onews and try it at what, 87-90 degrees?
i always put the sensing bulb RIGHT WITH the seeds, as if it were one of them. and ROCKS are for buckets, but that's another post!lol! thanks, Tremor, and everybody!!! eric

1/11/2005 7:52:31 PM

Syracuse, NY

floh!
i'd hate to get THAT stuff in my eye,
before it swelled!!!

1/11/2005 7:53:51 PM

Indiana

So far sonds like speed sprout is a flop???

1/11/2005 8:15:55 PM

Deer Park WA

The funny thing is we go to great extremes to provide the perfect conditions for rare seeds, yet when I throw a handfull of weak looking seeds from our own pumpkins in the worm bin they all seem to sprout and continue to grow like their possesed even with out light!

1/11/2005 9:27:01 PM

Syracuse, NY

oh no. yer not tossing out any 834s are you?
oh, pheeeww! you said pumpkins!

speed sprout is just apparently not being utilized by
us in the proper way yet.
i have yet to try it at a lower temperature, with new seeds now, since five days is a no-go, and i intend to put a few seeds in there that are only the meat of the seed, to ensure that the material IS coming into contact with the radicle tip. more to come. i wanna make this stuff work! eg

1/11/2005 11:11:51 PM

Buffalo, MN (Billsbigpumpkins@hotmail.com)

Recieved my Speed Sprout and Megagrow today. Will start my testing of it this weekend. Eric, the testing I just completed using baggies had approx 50% germination on day 5 or later.

I'll share all my results in several weeks.

1/11/2005 11:33:41 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Eric,

Look at this 2003 picture.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=7857

See the cheapo dial type thermometer? I stole it from Stephen Gecko habitat after we discovered he couldn't read & smiles all the time even without it.

The kid in the pet store saw me coming & convinced me to spend about $10 on this thing complete with a color coordinated matching humdity gauge.

I appreciate them much more now that they've been liberated to the pumpkin propagator. The fancy Old Lady heating pad can be seen in this image too. LOL

1/12/2005 2:06:25 AM

Syracuse, NY

BillF----the baggie method----are you putting seeds in a moist paper towel in a Ziploc bag and giving them a constant source of heat? or are you doing anything other than this...just wondering.
the first time i got seeds to sprout in a Ziploc, i had given up on them, but it was more than five days and they
started to stink, to me a sure sign that it is over,
and then theysprouted juuussst a little bit and i put them into 4' peat pots. next thing i know, my 191Bs came up
(300 Gerry '01 (1140 X 845) X 815 Checkon),
and they were the fastest-growing seedlings i have ever had, bar none! those two plants went to a newbie at work, and the next one i planted went on to grow some very beautiful fruit, 2 on the same plant @ 258 and 260. twins!

so, yeah, a good thing to stick it out! but hopefully your
and Benetton's experiments will prove more FRUITFUL than mine. that would be good! and, i never stop experimenting!
we should start a NEW post, though, unless you guys wanna
see how long a post's history can be!!! later, soon, eric

1/12/2005 11:00:36 AM

Chicago, IL

Thanks Pumpkinpal2 for the seeds. We got 100% germination. Take a look:
www.megagro.com/big/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=84&DID=6

2/12/2005 5:53:11 PM

Syracuse, NY

here are the latest results from the lab at MegaGro:

www.megagro.com/big/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=84&DID=6

the seeds which i sent them were from my 250.5 Gerry '04 fruit, (794 Wronski X 950.4 Boyton), and since i had a large number of seeds and they sprouted nicely in my own
season's-end germination test, well, i sent them twenty
seeds to experiment on in their lab. they did a filed-seed
test, a soaked-for-24-hours-in-water-and-then-placed-in-SpeedSprout test, a snipped-all-the-way-around-the-seed-coat
test, and a control group test, where nothing was done to the seeds before being placed into SpeedSprout.
KEY:::::the seeds were reportedly sprouted at about 74 degrees F. the seeds were sprouted flat on a table or similar in the SpeedSprout packets, which were label side up, therefore they were in reasonable darkness, which may have something to do with their enthusiasm to sprout....they may take slightly longer to sprout than with the conventional methods, but if the chance for rot or damping off or whatever is minimized, it is well worth it to give this product a try! i will now be doing more germination testing on my own seeds with more SpeedSprout. eg

2/16/2005 12:53:38 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Not to be skeptical. Do you really think they would show you the failures? Have we seen any pumpkin plants grown with this stuff. It is one thing to get a seed to sprout, another thing to get it to grow. I would not put an 846, 898 or 1260 in this. I will use the potting soil and 82-85 degree temp in the cooler method.

2/16/2005 1:51:07 PM

Syracuse, NY

yes, i got 'cha. i would not EXPECT anyone to put a top seed in it without finding out first just how well it does or does not work for them.
i sent them 20 seeds. there are 8 in the pictures on the website. they say they have had 100% germination, and i believe it. would you use up ALL of a test subject the first time around? no. looking at the pictures, i see and remember that i did write on the "worked" seeds with a black Sharpie.....it will be an ongoing thing, and if and when i myself get it to work, then i can branch out a liitle and try it on my own seeds from a year, 2 years and 3 years ago.

no new method is safe or of real interest until it is PROVEN, just like the seeds. no one has yet to tell me they've tried replicating and using my germination buckets,
either------but once they've tried it, they'll love it!
i am hoping for the same with SpeedSprout. more experiments, more details will broaden our view. i totally feel like you do; old methods for top seeds for now!!! eric

2/19/2005 3:32:46 AM

Syracuse, NY

additionally, the initial purpose of the SpeedSprout IS
to have seeds sprouted in it, and THEN plant them where they are really supposed to actually grow, just like some growers do anyway. the main advantage to this whole thing is being able sprout the seeds in a sterile environment where germination problems like rot and/or damping off might be minimized. even moreso than in the seed-starting mix we all know and love!
it is just a different way of doing it that may work well
for some people. there have not been any plants actually grown in it, BUT there is the possibility that if a simple water-soluble fertilizer is added to the mixture, it COULD feasibly grow into a nice seedling.
again, experimentation!!!

2/19/2005 3:43:06 AM

Long Island,New York

Well Eric.....I certainly would have sent a bad seed or two on purpose to see how truthfull they were....missed opportunity .

2/19/2005 12:56:50 PM

Syracuse, NY

let's start putting any more results/comments/ideas
about this stuff on the "remember speed sprout?"
post at the top of this message board.

2/21/2005 4:20:24 PM

Syracuse, NY

so, if i had sent them a few bad seeds and they didn't sprout, they might not have told me that a few of them didn't sprout, right? they may have told me that everything they planted sprouted to make their product look really good, eh? realize that any comments on here about this stuff are being looked at by the company that makes it.
which might not matter to anyone but me, but must we go about things like this with the idea that right off the bat, people are trying to deceive "us"??? if YOU don't buy it, i do not care. but if i get it to work for ME, that is all that matters, and i will advertise it like it is MY company that makes it. eg

2/21/2005 4:31:04 PM

Syracuse, NY

as usual, in reading this again hours later, sorry to have gotten so "bent" about it. they sprouted my seeds, and there's the pictures. when it works for one of us, there'll be more pictures, from one of US. then, hopefully more and more-----eric

2/22/2005 1:17:45 AM