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Appalachian Mtns.

I've soaked seed for 24, 18, 12, 9, 6, and 4 hours, and in various mediums. The only difference I can tell is the smell after 12+ hours in any liquid. They still pretty much follow along the same speed path, maybe a bit slower after only 4 hours.

What's the "optimum" time, if there is one, in solution?
I'd tend to think 6-12 but what's some opinions?

4/18/2003 7:52:26 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Kyle,

I've noticed that less than 8 hrs is a little bit slower. Over 12 has resulted in mixed results though that could have been the viability of the older seeds I was working with. I'm sticking with 6-8 hrs for now.

Ziploc bags have proven disasterous here. Probably a lack of oxygen. I won't be using them next week.

You using bags, soil, or what?

Steve

4/18/2003 8:15:06 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

I also find that depending on how long you soak and if filed to much the cotes show some stress and don't uncurl if they have been soaked to long...I think for me, 4 hours in hydrogen peroxide on carefully filed seeds then in very wet well tamped down starting soil in approx 85 degrees bring em up in 72 hours or so...Another trick I learned this year is to water from the bottom and let the soil wick up the water. Roots really spread down.(Thanks Wayne)
The last two test plants I haven't uprooted yet but one was treated with Mychorhizal and is about 1.5 times larger plant wise both are leggy from lack of good sun but really interested to see the roots when I pull them. I'm ready!!!
Chuck

4/18/2003 9:23:10 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Steve,
I'm staying away from the baggies, I rotted several..too much heat, too little O2...going straight into violets potting mix after soaking.
Another question...would you soak 1/2 time PGR and 1/2 time H2O2? If so, which order? Would they be incompatible?

Good tip Chuck, makes sense. I think I'll try that.
I'm also using Myke, + Rootshield.

4/19/2003 12:10:59 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

My wife has wicks for her violets...may have to use something similar. Yarn?

4/19/2003 12:12:55 AM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

Following Chuck post, I can say that I got some heavyhitters answers to the wetting length question to soak from 1/2 hour until 6 hours. The sorther periods maybe are a little slower but it is said to be enough and safer for seed health. Some one even do not file the white soft skin seeds edges.

Don

4/19/2003 2:29:11 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

I did a lot more seed testing last year with all the methods and found that Yes you can get a seed to root in 18 hours...But in trying to do this at what cost...The race is over in october...slower by two days now with a healthier root system is much better. Nature will open a shell by itself so its a fine line between being to much help by filing and soaking and really giving the cotes a chance to provide the energy the plant needs to emerge...curling leaf edges usually are burnt or damaged by filing or soaking. give em a little help they'll do the rest and firm the soil will remove the shell..
chuck

4/19/2003 9:08:44 AM

North Ga

I've been just breaking off the pointy tip, wrap in moist paper towel and in 48 hrs they are ready to plant. Had grat success with 14 of 15 germinating in less than 72 hrs.

4/19/2003 10:39:07 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Kyle,

I'd soak Peroxide first, then a brief PGR just before the soil. I'd pretreat the soil with the Myco & Rootshield before planting the seed. This to avoid moving any fungicide off the seed. The last thing I've been doing before dropping the seed into the soil is a dusting of Captan. The first valid post emergent watering can include a little PGR too.

I think my baggies got cooked too. I had them sitting on the keyboard of my IBM Thinkpad. The trouble I think was partially closing the laptop's cover. It keeps the cat from laying on the warm keyboard! I think it gets too hot for the thin plastic bags with the cover down.

The towel covered heating pad is fine now on low. But when I first fired it up, I had to set it on high to reach 90*. Now it torches seeds on high at 110* when set on high. Go figure. For next year I'll invest in a more suitable propagation mat with more stable temperature regulation.

Steve

4/19/2003 10:45:19 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Steve,
I've been testing the lo-tech, no expense, dark cooler with hot water bottles method, to start seed in. Works very well.
The soil is already pretreated with the Myco and Rootshield.

I'll try H2O2 then PGR, thanks.

4/20/2003 7:14:35 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

New & astounding revelation!!!

Pumpkinpal has it nailed. Four hours in straight 3% peroxide. Warm room temps. Then a quick bath of PGR IV (my modification).
Then straight into my seed starting mix. I then dump the remaining PGR IV into the soilless mix. Placed on top of a towel that is sitting on the 85*F heating mat. 65-72 hours every time. Religously! Fresh seeds from 2002. No oldies.

6 for 6 on 3 attempts.

No surprises. No records. Just very reliable results.

What a waste of potentially great genetics though!

Steve

4/21/2003 10:17:27 PM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

You can put the seeds directly on the paper towels wetted with the solution you choose, water, water+H2O2, water+H2O2+Hormones, instead that submerging them prior in just a glass with the liquid. The countact is greater, the aireation much better and I believe all the stimulation process and germination is better as well.
One point I found out: the H2O2 bath prior to planting desinfected the seed, but doesn't assure its safeness after going to the pot. I got some rot seeds this way. If you want to assure safeness, have to roll the seed in a fungicide Captan like in the planting moment.

Don

4/22/2003 1:25:44 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Agreed. Peroxide has no residual. Baggy rot was proof of that. Especially where my fingers had touched the paper towels. Black fingerprint marks. Perhaps surgical latex gloves would have been in oorder.

Captan for sure on the real selection.

4/22/2003 11:19:36 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Hey Carlos, that's what I do to....
I use very small jelly jars, wrap filed seed in a paper towel, in the jar, fill'er up. Everything stays submerged for soaking.

4/22/2003 12:01:37 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Question,
Can the PGR and H2O2 have a negative effect on each other? If so, how?

4/22/2003 12:05:35 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Don't know. I see nothing in the chemical structure that would lead me to concern, but the broken approach should work well enough. I won't have time to try it before the deadline this year.

4/22/2003 1:14:56 PM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

I don't know either, but my thoughts are that straight 33% comercial H2O2 can destroy the hormones by oxidating them, but a more light diluted solution wouldn't harm them at all.
For instance you can desifented seeds by submerging in straight H2O2 for a couple of minutes, then wash and roll them in paper towels wetted in the diluted H2O2 and PGR or seaweee solution. The diluted H2O2 solution will provide a lot of O2 to the seeds and the PGR or seaweed maybe makes them sprout one day before.
The thing is are we in a hurry?

4/22/2003 3:04:00 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I'm in no hurry, just curious about such things.
And I use 1 ounce 3% H2O2 per quart water, shouldn't hurt anything.

4/22/2003 3:47:32 PM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

I soaked my 870 seed in H2O2 for about 10 hours (overnight). It looked O.K, but I put it into soil about 1 weak ago, and it did'n germinate yet. Is it normal?

4/22/2003 4:13:33 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Got some seed+peatpot in the cooler...4 hrs H2O2, 2 hrs PGR. Filed and unfiled.

4/22/2003 4:29:34 PM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

what is PGR?

4/22/2003 4:47:30 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

plant growth regulator

4/22/2003 4:49:17 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

sorry...plant hormones to enhance germination rates and used on the plants themselves, drench or foliar.

4/22/2003 4:51:11 PM

porterville, calif.

Does it really matter if you get a seed to come up in 5 days instead of 3. Just curious, thanks Greg

4/22/2003 5:50:00 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I suppose it would if a late frost or some unwelcomed vritter spoiled the first starts. Other than that I'd say no. 2 days one way or the other doesn't matter. just plan ahead. But the PGR IV does more than just pop seeds early. It helps to pop seeds that are otherwise of questionable viability. And if your trying to pop a single desirable seed it's good insurance especially if it's older. And it also produces a more vigorous & very agressively rooted speciment that has a very definate early growing advantage over untreated seeds of the same type that aren't treated. I've proven this to myself many times this winter. Even a pound or two can make a difference at weigh off time. Though it's psossible that gains could be much higher than this since PGR IV also improves early fruitset & retention. Just one more tool in the growers box.

Steve

4/22/2003 8:53:04 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Critter not vritter. Jeeze I gotta proof read!

4/22/2003 8:53:59 PM

porterville, calif.

I have soaked my seed. I can see where you want to give your seed , especialy a older seed or where you have just one a good chance of coming up. In my case I have just 1 cramer 851, and 2 Desrosiers 840. It has been 5 days , the 840 has come up, I expect the Cramer any time now. My heat source wasn,t warm as I like it but things look good so far. Thanks

4/22/2003 9:08:11 PM

Kansas

What are some common PGR brand names? Interested in finding some here locally.Thanks.

Shawn

4/22/2003 10:04:28 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Here's a link to Microflo PGR IV............http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld1IK000.pdf

4/23/2003 6:22:22 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Talk to Steve (Tremor) if you're wanting to purchase some, he'll steer you in the right direction.
$300 a gallon.

4/23/2003 6:29:32 AM

Central Connecticut

What about adding Merit or admire to your initial soaking? As Len said in his Anti SVB aproach?..Chris

4/23/2003 1:15:32 PM