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Grittyville, WA

What is "current" scale certification? This year? This decade? This century?

The owners of local supermarket said that as far as the State of Washington is concerned, their "inspected in 2017" scales are current. But if 2017 is ok then this behs the question, are the scales at the hardware store (certified in 2008) good enough as well? (Their scale is being used to make public business transactions every day, also.)

Does the gpc recognize local laws, or do they have their own unwritten laws about what is "current"?

Some tough love for the gpc here... but if they have their own laws about what a "currently certified" scale means then can they please make it clearer what their law is exactly...!?

Thanks.

...I have exhausted the resources in my small town trying to get my tomatoes weighed to gpc specifications and I think I may have to drive an hour into some city to continue what feels like an ever more quixotic tomato quest :)

8/22/2023 12:53:06 PM

Grittyville, WA

begs

8/22/2023 12:53:51 PM

Grittyville, WA

"Early entries MUST be weighed on a legal for trade scale certified by NTEP (national type evaluation program) such as a supermarket deli scale. The scale inspection tag must be current. There are no exceptions to this rule. Home scales are not considered within this contest, certified or not." -gpc rules

Thanks. Its possible some clarification here will help someone besides myself.

As for me, I did the best I could, the tomatoes looking sadder and sadder every day. But there's always next year.

8/22/2023 1:00:21 PM

Colorado

To me if they are using the scale for official retail selling and has a tag that is official to your jurisdiction that should be fine.

8/22/2023 2:27:15 PM

Colorado

If it's a world record or biggest of the year then maybe scales should be certified within the last year. Just my 2cents.

8/22/2023 2:29:46 PM

Elk County, PA

Washington State Law "no weighing or measuring instrument or device may be used for commercial purposes in the state unless its commercial use is registered annually."

Annually means yearly, they use this language because some prefer shorter calibration intervals.

8/22/2023 2:54:36 PM

Grittyville, WA

I agree Scott.

So both stores are operating illegally I guess.

8/22/2023 3:08:20 PM

Grittyville, WA

The way I read that, registration is different than certification or calibration.

You could register your vehicle, but thats not the same thing as it being certified "road worthy". The state assumes that any vehicle of year/type xyz is road worthy even if it isnt.

So the scales might be REGISTERED with the state, and this gives the state the authority to inspect them and test them, but really the state can (and does) assume that the scales are in accurate working order, just the same as they assume your vehicle is in proper working order.

So I did just look at the laws and I dont see how my grocery store or hardware store is violating the law. Their scales ARE registered and the state believes they are correct hence they have not inspected them recently (or they are lazy bums)...

Anyhow... all really all I need to know is ->exactly<- what the gpc wants.

8/22/2023 3:21:14 PM

Grittyville, WA

...And for the gpc's exact rules to be written out and applied fairly to everyone. If that means tested within the past 6 or 12 or 18 months then so be it. It just needs to be written out so that its not vague.

8/22/2023 3:23:47 PM

Grittyville, WA

$^*+ I mean, is no one else having this problem? This little black raincloud is just over east Lewis County I guess :(

8/22/2023 3:26:39 PM

Grittyville, WA

If there's a $5 charge for my whining... guess I owe the gpc about $35. I cant make an hour into town today or tomorrow, so the only wheels spinning are the ones in my head...

Apologies!

I know it will all sort out eventually, next year I will put my my better half in charge of weighing the tomatoes.

8/22/2023 3:34:01 PM

Elk County, PA

Walmart?

8/22/2023 3:40:46 PM

Grittyville, WA

I dont go into the city more than about once a month. But yes, presumably someone in Washington state has a scale certified more recently than 2017.

But suppose Walmart was certified 3 years ago or 2 years ago or 18 months ago, or whatever... I'd like to know what exactly is good enough.

It doesn't say in the rules. It might come across as nitpicky to want to know what the standard really is, but I dont like guessing what other people want, I'd rather just know. Its easier on me, and easier on everyone else to just eliminate the guesswork or any ambiguity. The sooner the better, but maybe not for my sake, because my tomatoes are basically no good at this point.

8/22/2023 6:07:39 PM

Grittyville, WA

I'd like to be able to walk into a store and say "do you have a ceryified scale that has been inspected in the past 18 months"? Or whatever.
If I say "do you have a current certification/ inspection" then no one can really agree on what that means... ? or can they...??
I'm trying to simplify this not complicate it. Can I get an Amen, here. I'd love to shut up, I truly would. So I will.

8/22/2023 6:19:32 PM

Walla Walla Wa.

The state requires every scale to be recertification every 2 years,the inspector comes every 2 years and tests the scale to make sure its within the correct parameters and then he updates the scales tag showing that its current.

8/22/2023 8:47:55 PM

Grittyville, WA

Why havent they come to Morton Wa???

Ok, so 2 years then...? Thank you.

Can anybody from the gpc confirm this? This of course tosses out all my results for the year.

8/22/2023 11:46:06 PM

Walla Walla Wa.

Are you saying that non of the scales that you have access to have a sticker that shows that it's been inspected in the last 2 yrs?

8/23/2023 12:12:40 AM

Bethlehem CT

I believe each state is in charge of there ownindividual department of weights and measures, so I would expect there to be different requirements in different staes.

8/23/2023 7:04:31 AM

Grittyville, WA

There is a federal aspect to weights and measures too... now that I think about it there is one more store I havent tried. But yeah I tried everywhere. The funniest response I got was "I think they have a scale over at the transfer station." I thought, 'my tomatoes are big, but they aren't THAT big!' The scales there are accurate to the nearest 10 lbs, that will be a good day when I move the needle on one of those scales.

8/23/2023 8:55:47 AM

Grittyville, WA

Checked another store... 2016.

Im playing bingo so to speak instead of weighing tomatoes. All the stores around here... can't ALL be operating illegally.

I'll keep my eyes open for more recent, but what all dates have you been submitting to the gpc/ what year(s) will they accept??? I guess this question has no answer, or maybe Dan nailed it... idk.

8/23/2023 5:40:22 PM

Walla Walla Wa.

Looks like they're not following the law or maybe the inspector/ certifier isn't doing his job.

8/23/2023 7:26:15 PM

Grittyville, WA

Seems no one else in Washington, or anywhere else, is having this problem...? I must live in some alternate universe.

8/23/2023 8:33:03 PM

On a cliff in the desert

Try a FedEx or UPS store.

8/23/2023 9:10:40 PM

Colorado

Honestly I would just send your tomatoes in and let the gpc decide if the scale sticker is ok. You did your best to find a scale with a sticker. If it gets turned down your no worse off. At least this way you have a chance to get them on this years list. Good luck

8/24/2023 1:00:04 AM

Colorado

I'm lucky. The nursery here has a scale that is certified every year and they enjoy seeing my big red globe walk through the door. :)

8/24/2023 1:02:10 AM

Tenino, WA.

Little Kins if you can not find a store with a recent check test approval sticker than notify the Washington State Department of Agriculture weights & measures. Tell them about the stores that are using scales with old (2017) out dated inspection stickers. I had the same problem a few years ago. I contacted the department of weights and measures they came out within a couple of days and tested the scales thus I could weigh my tomatoes there. I notified the department again when they purchased new scales and put them in use without having them tested and certified. Again I needed to have the inspection sticker on the scale so I could send in a picture of the inspection sticker with my entries. If you do be ready for the store manager to call you on the carpet that happened to me. Stand your ground get the scales tested or find a store with a current inspection sticker. The scales I use were tested and approved in February 2023 by the Washington State Department of Agriculture weights & measures.

8/24/2023 2:09:39 AM

Grittyville, WA

So the store manager was upset?

Is 2017 actually legally out of date? I haven't read the statute that says that's in fact illegal.

I'm not a cop nor a lawyer... and I don't want to be either. Maybe wile coyotes idea is a good one. Thanks Jack, wile coyote, & all.

I'd still like to know from the gpc if 2 years is a steadfast rule. It will be a simmering source of contention unless its set in stone. The simple fact is, not everyone is going to weigh their tomatoes on a 2023 certified scale.

8/24/2023 4:48:35 AM

Grittyville, WA

"(1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section and *RCW 19.94.190(1)(d), the department shall test and inspect each biennium a sufficient number of weighing and measuring instruments and devices to ensure that the provisions of this chapter are enforced."

Notice it doesn't say: "the department shall test and inspect ALL weighing and measuring instruments".

But I guess this is beating a dead horse since no one else is having a problem.

I owe the gpc $50 in $5 whining fees now!

8/24/2023 12:02:47 PM

President - GPC

Little Kins > Your can submit that $50 via the "DONATE" button on www.gpc1.org! :)

8/24/2023 3:48:05 PM

Grittyville, WA

Thumbs up!!!

8/24/2023 10:05:09 PM

Grittyville, WA

Broke at the moment, been sick most of this month, but hopefully that changes :)

8/24/2023 10:16:59 PM

Norfolk, UK

I have this issue in the UK. I'm familiar with the GPC regulation for a sticker - but also it's challenges outside of the US. I contacted 22 stores in my county in the UK - supermarkets, butchers, deli type places - to weigh and register it at the GPC early entry. None had such sticker.


In contrast, trade legal scales in the UK – for butchers, delis or greengrocers (as an example) – need to confirm to specific UK and EU standards (Class 3 Trade approved) but do not carry annual specific markings that the GPC states it requires. In contrast to annual US stamps (the onus on the retailer), in the UK are subject to random checks from trading standards (the enforcer) and scales removed / asked to be fixed as needed.

A store *may* get an annual re-calibration certificate (it is possible to buy this as a service) but it’s not required legally (or asked for), and store may just check calibration themselves (still no sticker).

For previous entries I had to drive for 2 hours to the owner of scales used at a GPC site.

The rules as they are in my view, do not account for commercially legal and trading scales norms outside the US - as well as it seems your local area.

This is a shame in my view, and doesn't necessarily reflect the needs of international community of growers.

Some international growers do seem to find scales that work for the GPC, but I have found it a struggle.

8/25/2023 3:10:19 PM

Grittyville, WA

Its a relatively new thing for the gpc, to attempt to give an alternative weigh-off venue (the early tomato thing is still a somewhat new format)... my guess is that for lack of any better ideas we'll just have to suffer a bit. The only idea I had was that maybe the local clubs could have a gpc approved scale available but it seems like there are thousands of scales being used for legal trade everywhere, which for the most part are probably quite accurate, so its just a question of avoiding any of those scales that might not be accurate. Even a very recently certified scale could still be inaccurate, because accidental damage or other alterations to the scale could happen at any time.

Anyhow, I've got all winter to keep my eyes out for more recent certifications.

I'd go weigh my tomatoes at Jack's store but they might get tired of weighing tomatoes. They might put up a sign: "No weighing any non-store inventory." It sounds like they are getting close to their tolerance for tomato troublemakers like Jack and myself.

8/25/2023 4:51:42 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

"Early entries MUST be weighed on a legal for trade scale certified by NTEP (national type evaluation program) such as a supermarket deli scale. The scale inspection tag must be current. There are no exceptions to this rule. Home scales are not considered within this contest, certified or not." -gpc rules


What is the definition of a "home" scale. I used to spend $100 per year to have my scale that I keep at home cerified accurate by the scale company. It was also loaned to various weighoffs for weighing of small vegetables. 22 pound capability..readability to .002 lb. I think my "home" scale is more accurate than the local grocery store. Last cailbration certificate: tolerance standard applied-H.B.44 CLASS II

https://www.nist.gov/pml/owm/nist-handbook-44-current-edition

I think we can get way more technical than needed.

8/27/2023 8:43:17 AM

Grittyville, WA

A public scale, accessible to anyone, should be easier to verify & it would be more difficult to cheat. Ultimately, if there was a question about the veracity of the results on a public scale, then a gpc rep (or anyone doubting a result) could take a standard weight to that store and do their own verification, or request a public audit of that scale with the local city/county/state authority.
Ultimately, having open access to a scale and the ability to randomly test a scale, is the final line of defense against any cheating or mistakes... Home scales just dont fit that bill because even if it was accurate, you could tinker with a home scale and get it to readout whatever you wanted.
It would be a lot harder to reprogram a public scale, or to get out your screwdriver and physically alter a public scale... someone would ask you what you were doing lol.

8/27/2023 11:20:45 AM

Grittyville, WA

If only US elections were as secure as the early tomato contest. Oops, I went there, lol.

8/27/2023 1:07:05 PM

Bowdon, GA

I had trouble finding one here. Even the post office doesn’t have certified scales. The problem is the department of ag that does the inspections is so understaffed it takes them years to make their rounds. Some fall off the radar completely. The store owner I finally found said the only reason his stays current is he calls and makes sure they come.

8/27/2023 1:55:29 PM

Tenino, WA.

We have the same problem here as in Georgia the weights & measures department is under staffed. They have thousands of scales to test, every truck scale, every railroad scale, every elevator scale, every store, every farmers market, every product sold by the yard should be checked. Wood sold by the cord is their responsibility. I stopped to get gas the meter was sticking and jumping. It would not register the amount of the sale. The staff used a calculator to figure out the bill. I asked the clerk about the gas pump meter. She told me that the owner went out with a 5 gallon bucket and tested the meter it is ok. I called the Weights and measures department. They were not happy. The next day they were on site and told the owner that the pump was out of order and could not be used until repaired, tested and certified. Not sure how much the fine was. Just think how many people could have been cheated. It comes down to the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

8/28/2023 4:31:55 PM

Mead, WA

Have you tried weighing tomato at the post office

11/6/2023 2:01:30 AM