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formerly RGG

I am developing plants that seem extremely bushy to me. I am very happy with the way they are looking. But I am wondering if all the interior growth is good for growing a whopper size melon. These new interior vines will shade the vines they are forced to grow over. So should I be pinching them out in favor of expanding the longer vines into uncovered ground ?

5/4/2012 9:50:28 PM

Muddy Waters

Some pinching may be good,maybe 50%,but I wouldn't worry about it to the extreme.While there get thicker there getter longer also.

5/4/2012 9:56:38 PM

Watervalley Ms

Growth hormones are the cause,I have the same problem and i don't like that effect.

5/5/2012 2:06:20 AM

formerly RGG

That could possibly be true but I have used much less growth hormone in the form of kelp than last year. And last year I did not have this problem. I have noticed a similar growth habit in Chris Kent's plants in past years and he does not use growth hormones at all as far as I can know. I am thinking the extra growth may be due to the increased fertility of my soil. In any case, I am less concerned about the cause and more concerned about whether this could impact fruit in a negative way.But Chris has had spectacular results so perhaps it isn't so bad. Anyway I may choose to do a little selective pruning after my vines have grown larger.

5/5/2012 8:02:52 AM

The North Coast

melonman is on to something. Cytokinin is a hormone that reduces the apical dominance of the plant.

5/5/2012 8:09:28 AM

formerly RGG

So Nate, do you consider that good or bad or not a factor or unknown as to what effect that might have on fruit ? I know Todd likes to use a little growth hormone and he had spectacular results last year.

5/5/2012 8:34:21 AM

Bethlehem CT

Also cooler temps will cause shorter lengths between internodes so a plant will appear denser. Greenhouse growers use cooling techniques called "dif" to act as a hormone substitute when trying to grow compact bedding plants.

5/5/2012 9:13:29 AM

Pataskala,OH

Most fruit plants are pruned. So some pruning would probably be good for watermelon, but the problem is the pruning method is yet to be perfected/discovered for watermelon. Maybe we should trim the tertiary vines like pumpkins and train them in a xmas tree pattern.

5/5/2012 11:39:18 AM

Muddy Waters

I wouldnt worry Dennis my plants were real bushy,Lets see a picture of your plants.

5/5/2012 3:35:22 PM

Muddy Waters

I looked at your May 1st photos I would leave them alone,They are grated plants they make take slightly different shape then the CCsI would however check your nitrogen they look a little lite on the green.I hope this helps not trying to criticize.

5/5/2012 3:44:28 PM

Muddy Waters

grafted!lol

5/5/2012 3:45:03 PM

The North Coast

This is all very interesting. There is a very intimate relationship between auxin and cytokinin. The plant always strives for an unknown balance between the two. An abundance of one causes the plant to react and increase the other. Both of these hormones are typically produced by either the root and growth tips of the plant. If we think about the big picture, we graft to get more roots and thus more vigor. If there are more roots and more root tips there may me a response in the plant that results in a bushier plant.

For me, I think this is a benefit in that a melon positioned closer to the action is better than a melon out near the end of the vine.

5/5/2012 5:39:41 PM

Muddy Waters

Bushy maybe good!

5/5/2012 9:21:07 PM

formerly RGG

Mark, constructive criticism is great. I think the camera made some of the leaves look less green than they actually are and I believe they are getting adequate nitrogen at the moment.If I fire these plants up with too much nitrogen it may take them into July to set melons. I don't want to go there again. lol By the way Mark, they are Carolina Cross plants.What else could you accurately call them ? They just have grafted rootstock. But the roots are designed to make the vines a little different than on a non grafted plant and different in a good way. I haven't done any trimming yet; but I am still thinking about maybe doing a light amount.

5/5/2012 10:44:35 PM

Muddy Waters

I didnt trim my plants till they were piling up or reached a perimeter.Just saying cuts can cause infection,I would hold off till mandatory.

5/6/2012 6:35:27 AM

Garner, NC

Dennis, I have seen your pictures, and been following your diary to see how the grafts do early on, compared to mine. I think they were planted around the same time. I have also wondered about the bushyness , and the cause. There is no way to tell if it is caused by the grafts, because you do not have any tradition plants. I would be willing to bet that you have really been pushing them pretty hard early on. Yes or no?? I have no idea how a melon will do on that type of plant, could be the way to go, just not sure. If the plants are too thich, rotting will become a issue in wet times, so keep a eye on it.
Another thought, could it be caused by the periods of constant light they recieved early on, if so, I think they will grow out of that.
One suggestion might be to cut way back on ferts, and foliar for a while, and detoxic the plants, if it is to much for the young plants to handle.
I do really like the kelp, but I know the limits, and really dont use much early on, untill the plants become more established.

5/6/2012 8:36:02 PM

formerly RGG

Thanks for the reply Todd. I find your perspective very insightful and helpful.I did push these plants from the time I received them up until about 2 weeks ago. I pushed them with 24 hour light and with kelp and various fertilizers.And the larger plants have been growing since the last week of February. About two weeks ago I began to fear they were too early and put the lights away and backed off on the fertilizers and stopped using the kelp for a while. They slowed way down for about a week when we had cooler weather and lots of clouds. But is has been warm and mostly sunny for the last several days and growth has picked back up.Even without the kelp and fertilizers my soil is very fertile this year and so that is what I would expect. That is except for the 285 Edwards that I planted after pulling a big plant to assure myself I would have something for a late weigh-off. It is just now beginning to grow out from the stump. I really love giving young plants constant light as I can see how it really kicks in their growth. It may be a variety of factors that are causing the bushiness. I do think you are right about to many crossing vines and some of then dying and causing other vines to catch rot and die too. I feel I need to limit this possibility and many thanks for bringing it to my attention.

5/6/2012 11:03:57 PM

formerly RGG

It would be much simpler if all dead growth could be immediately removed and that would eliminate that cause of rot. But we often can't even see cull melons that have set on, much less notice and remove every little bit of rotting leaves and vines that occur. I don't think overlapping vines can be eliminated but do think we need to limit the amount of them as much as we can. And I will absolutely never use straw in my patch again as rotting straw can spell disaster in a patch. My 255 Mitchell was practically ruined by straw last year and I know that Chris had even worse problems from rotting straw.Anyway, I feel I am doing a pretty good job so far this year of controlling what is going on with my plants. I really want a world class melon or two and I know that is not possible if I do anything stupid. The catch is that what one grower considers a good practice may be considered something stupid by another grower.We all develop our own perspective as to what is best for our plants.

5/6/2012 11:04:05 PM

Garner, NC

Hey Dennis, by no means do I think anything a grower does is stupid. I think, that is what makes this hobby so great. You have so many people doing the same thing, but we all go about it a different way, that is what makes it so awesome. There are many ways to skin a cat, without trying new techniques, we will never get bigger results. Anyway, I have a feeling you will have some very competitive melons this year, your passion for growing will get results.
By the way, I have lost your number, and wanted to call you a few weeks ago, if you can, just email me your number sometimes.

5/7/2012 9:53:55 AM

formerly RGG

You are absolutely right Todd. I find you to be one of the most helpful people on this forum. And our conversation helped me a lot. Thanks.

5/10/2012 4:03:49 PM

Sugar Hill , Georgia

I definantly think that lower temps earlier have a significant affect on plant bushyness

5/29/2012 11:25:54 PM