Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

sevierville, Tn

Ok, its gonna be a long winter, lets talk genetics. How do we get bigger better watermelons? Which line has the best chance to make it to a new world record ?
Here is one problem I’m running into. I copied all the watermelons listed in the GPC pages for 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and there are 442 listed. They range in weight from 267 lbs. to 1 lb. There are 240 bigger than 100 lbs. 24 are 200 lbs. or larger.
Out of those 442 , only 95 list a mother ! Only 47 of those list a father ! Makes it hard to figure out any trend. Maybe that’s why the record only went up 8 lbs. in 23 years ! Any thoughts guys ??????

10/31/2008 9:56:47 PM

Andy W

Western NY

There are a couple watermelon files on the GPC site:

http://greatpumpkincommonwealth.com/resources.php

My feeling is that the watermelon growers who had been pushing the bigger ones have not been tracking the backgrounds of the seeds like pumpkin growers have, at least until recently. There is no AGGC for watermelons, and since there are a lot more open pollinations, it is tougher to get a handle on which "lines" are doing better.

I think it's getting better from what little I can see. I also think it will be a pumpkin grower (or former pumpkin grower) who finally breaks the 300# barrier. The big question is if the melons have the same potential for progress as the pumpkins have had over the last 30 years.

10/31/2008 10:50:20 PM

sevierville, Tn

Andy, Your probally right about a pumpkin grower setting a new record. Many of the ways we grow should help the watermelon. As far as potential, Since the rinds are harder & the flesh is softer, they probally won't increase like the pumpkins did. I could see 300-400 lbs pretty easily with some work. I think the fact that its harder to polinate & tell when the flowers will open puts some folks off on controled polination. That said, i was able to do it fairly easyly with a little practice. Worst case was i covered some flowers a day early & had to redo the next day when they really opened.

11/1/2008 9:45:11 AM

Walking Man

formerly RGG

I started this season with the thought that as long as I had the right variety of seed that one would be as good as any other.I took excellent care of my one plant including extensive use of several 400 watt metal halide bulbs to hasten growth and still ended up with a melon less than 100 pounds. That shows what can happen if you have no concern for good genetics. The man with the best genetics and the best growing conditions will certainly grow the heaviest melon.

11/1/2008 10:21:15 PM

Rochester, Minnesota

This is a good discussion area. Here are some questions that have bothered me.

Should we be pruning plants like what is done with pumpkins? Should we try to achieve a xmas tree type shape? Should we prune the vines after the melon?

Should we grow for plant/vine size or watermelon size? Which one gives us bigger melons in the long run?

Are there other types of watermelons that should be breed into the Carolina Cross that will give us better plants or better melon characteristics in the long run? Maybe the Blue Rind or something like that.

11/3/2008 11:09:48 AM

sevierville, Tn

MMM, I feel we should prune the vines to a certain size just like the pumpkin. Now what that size is , I don't know. Guessing, maybe 300-400sq ft max.

Since they don't have a dominate a main vine, but rather several , then the shape may need to be different & maybe prune the vine with with the fruit after its set.

Doing these 2 should = bigger fruit, just like pumpkins although its harder to limit growth do to the smaller side & 3rd stage side vines.

I think the blue rind would be a great choice for a cross. Can it be done ? Has anyone done it ?? I bought some seed to try that this year.

11/3/2008 2:25:20 PM

Lexington, Ky

I grew two 170+ pounders on the same plant this year, total square feet of about 200. Trained the vines to grow in a double christmas tree pattern, pruned and dead headed often. One main was 8 feet long, the other was six. The pruning strategy was an attempt to keep the plant away from my pumpkins, not to test theories or push the melons. I was very pleased with the results though. And I should also mention that the melon vines were trampled on quite often....they were just in the way.

Jamie

11/4/2008 3:45:03 PM

Rochester, Minnesota

The stump will throw usually 5 vines like fingers on a hand, with one being the primary or middle. Did you prune any of these vines? Is that what you meant by a double christmas tree pattern?

Yes, if you have good conditions, you certainly can grow multiple 150+ melons on the same plant. I always wonder after that if you had pruned, would you have gotten one melon in the 220 class?

11/4/2008 6:19:29 PM

Lexington, Ky

The first two major vines that took off were kept and I treated/trained them as "mains" and yes, the other fingers were terminated almost immediately. This plant grew four "fingers".

I trained the two "mains" in opposite directions and subsequently trained the secondary growth in the christmas tree pattern. Snipped every other secondary and buried all vines. Allowed some third stage growth but pruned when it reached the secondary growth.

I wonder what might have happened had I pruned that second fruit off when it was young?!

I have no choice but to aggessively prune them due to space limitations. Next year, I will try the same parent seed with the same aggressive pruning but allow only one fruit.
Now, I'm testing ;}

11/4/2008 7:14:55 PM

Lexington, Ky

In regard to concern for good genetics....shouldn't be too big of a deal to get a carolina cross melon over 100 pounds. Most growers would argue that an open pollinated plant is bad as far as genetics are concerned and as pointed out early on in this thread, alot of open pollinations are being grown. Growing environment/conditions/tecnique may play a larger role with melons.

And just maybe, some growers are getting good genetic lines via open pollinations? I grew only one plant so perhaps I have a selfed seed line? I realize alot of growers think that bees will travel miles between plants in search of pollen but that just isn't the case most of the time if ever.

I don't think increased weights will come from crossing other varieties into the carolina cross line. I think that careful selection of characterics is the way to go.

In Melon Mans' tracking data, we see how varied the measurements can be on two equally weighted pumpkins. If two melons weigh in at 200 pounds each and one has exceptional length but not girth and the other..exceptional girth but not length...I'm liking the sounds of that as a future cross.

And one last thing, I firmly believe that we should be tracking over/under the chart data. Both of my melons went 15 pounds heavy. I think heavy to the chart melons should also be factored in when considering selective pollinations.

Thank goodness we don't have to worry about color!

11/4/2008 7:45:54 PM

sevierville, Tn

One thing i read in Brights book was that the melons do their growing during the day. Thats opposite from the pumpkins we grow. Anyone have 1st hand knowledge of this ?

My big melon was 10 lbs light. It was a little longer on one side & had a large hollow area inside. Both could account for the 10 lbs. I wasn't as consistant with watering as i should have been either.

Crossing other varieties may or maynot help. Has anyone tried??

11/5/2008 1:59:08 PM

Rochester, Minnesota

My two largest melons by size were 20 to 25 pounds lite. I suspect they are quite hollow since I haven't opened them yet. I don't know if this is a genetic thing, or a growth thing. I was told that certain fertilizers will encourage more solid fruit, but I think it also has something to do with temperature swings.

11/5/2008 5:35:03 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

smp, do you think the hollow area was due to your lack of watering? I have read in the past that a mid-day watering is essential to a large melon. Also, vine burying seems to be an essential question...have heard recently that a "real" KY. melon grower, lost most of his vines this year after burying them??? All thoughts appreciated!! Peace, Wayne

11/6/2008 12:38:41 AM

Rochester, Minnesota

Well gosh Wayne, when you bury your vines you should remember where you put them. Then you wouldn't lose them.

11/6/2008 12:45:21 PM

sevierville, Tn

Wayne, inconsistant watering is 1 theory on hollow melons. Got me if that was the cause, i'm new at watermelons !
Who is the "real" KY. melon grower ??
I have been told DO NOT bury melon vines & i believe it & don't !

11/6/2008 2:24:39 PM

Rochester, Minnesota

I don't bury my vines, because they are so prone to rot, but if someone says that it works, then I will be out there trying to bury them. Or maybe I will get my lab to bury them.

I do pin the vines down which causes lots of secondary rootings, but not as many this year as past years. I think the cool weather just didn't let the plants grow enough here.

I am going to have to give the pruning of the unused vines a try. I just don't know how much to keep and how much to prune.

11/6/2008 4:45:34 PM

sevierville, Tn

One of the reasons we bury the pumpkin vines is to promote secondary rootings at the nodes . The pumpkins will send a root out from both the top & bottom of each node, i have never seen a root from the top of the nodes on melons.
They are also so prone to rot as MMM said.

11/6/2008 9:04:38 PM

Marty S.

Mt.Pleasant,Iowa

Yes you need to water the plant or stump area everyday around 11-1 in the heat of the day.Watermelons grow during the day and if they are not watered they will have a big hollow spot in the middle. I grew only 3 melons this year and lost my biggest after a 7 inch rain but all were solid and no hollow spots. I gave them only 5 gal. of water minimum.I even put a 5 gal. bucket by each plant so the kids could dump it while I was at work. my 2 cents

11/7/2008 7:10:47 AM

Lexington, Ky

So, if I grow my melons in Kentucky, bury all my vines without losing them to rot and manage two 170 pound fruit on one plant, will that make me a "real" KY melon grower?! Guess the real KY melon grower was the one that didn't show up at the weigh off with a melon....

I've been told more than once not to bury pumpkin vines in Kentucky but I'm not a good listener. I'm also not afriad to buck trends and advice. Careful placement of water around buried vines more than likely lets me get by with it. Plus, I'm careful as to what I bury my vines with as well.

Even though I got by with it on the melons, my post grow inspection of the vines gives me no reason to bury again. Pinning sounds like a much better idea.

I would be interested in hearing what melon growers are doing in regard to fertilizers....what you're using, how often. Maybe we can unlock a few pounds exploring this.

Anyone using Mycorrizae? Anyone shade their fruit?

11/7/2008 10:07:27 AM

Rochester, Minnesota

Well I definitely shade my fruit. I have learned that you absolutely have to. As for fertilizer, I have been pretty open about that. I use some 10-10-10 granular in the pit under the plant. I will use some high N, like miracle grow in the spring when I establish the plant. I switch to a 5-50-17 during growing season, and then back to a high N when the weather turns cold. Throughout this whole time, I am dumping buckets of rabbit manure tea on the plants. At least 3 gallons every 2 days.

11/7/2008 10:15:27 AM

sevierville, Tn

I did very little fertilizer, once in early summer, then some in sept when growth slowed. May need to do more or have better soil ala pumpkins. I feel a good balanced soil well admended will be very important to get to 300 lbs.
Shade is a must, I agree.
I did some Mycorrizae, will do more this year.
Jamie, Since you burried, did any have roots from the top of the leaf nodes like pumpkins do ?

11/7/2008 10:40:28 AM

big moon

Bethlehem CT

I read in a recent GVGO article that Bill Donkers buried his vines for his Canadian record.

11/7/2008 5:43:48 PM

Hilltopper

Kentucky

I think Wayne used the term "real" melon grower to support the fact that he had exchangd emails with someone that did exist (not just in his imagination) and grew melons in KY and who in fact had buried all his melon vines this year.

I tried some new techniques on growing my melons this year. I pruned and buried all my melons vines and tried to grow them more like we grow pumpkins. My melons were growing faster and better than ever until we had a week of wet weather and most of my vines rotted.

My plan is to continue to prune the vines but I probably won't bury them any more. I learned a lot this year and will try more new things next year. Eventually we will find some new ways to grow a big melon.

Even though I had the rotting problems I ended up with four melons over 180 and I did show up at the weigh off with one weighing 216.

Bill

11/7/2008 6:32:28 PM

Ottercreek

Its to hot to grow watermelons in Ky.

11/7/2008 7:09:39 PM

Marty S.

Mt.Pleasant,Iowa

lol Frank

11/7/2008 8:24:11 PM

Lexington, Ky

Lmao Bill and Frank! ;}

Jamie

11/9/2008 3:09:53 PM

cowboybob4

Mississippi

Wonder what the deal is with Loyd Bright and his 279 pounder? Look at the bottom left pic on giantwatermelons.com.

11/15/2008 12:14:07 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

bob, not to disrespect anything done by Mr. Bright, but could it be a simple typo? On the seed ordering page, a 179# seed is for sale. It is a little sad that (as far as I know) there is no governing body at the Bright Farm weighoff...(like GPC) that inspects and approves the fruit before they hit the scales. At least none that is mentioned on the link you sent us. Peace, Wayne

11/15/2008 1:48:44 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Oh, yeah...Bill's last post...is what I meant by a "real" melon grower, I was referring to him and Frank!!!! and several others in the Great Commonwealth!!!! Peace, Wayne

11/15/2008 1:50:09 AM

pumpkinhead vic

Mt Vernon Ky

I didn't show at the weigh off this year so I guess it was me Jamie was talking about I was too sick to take care of my pumpkins and watermelons I went down in July but ill be ready next year God willing Vic

11/15/2008 1:09:11 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Mr. Victor, God's blessing to you!! I didn't make it to the weigh-off either...but I WILL next year!!! I will see you there!!!
Jamie, thanks for the input...it seems like a soil moisture problem/decision? Peace, Wayne
PS...my bad for not including Jamie as one on the list of "real" melon growers in KY!!! What a lineup of melons at Bear Wallow Farms, this year!!! Can't wait till 09!!!

11/15/2008 6:08:24 PM