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Date Posted

Eddyz@efirehose.net

I was able to reach the customs department and ask the question as to why the seeds were destroyed after clearing customs. This was their response.
The package was sent to its address and was refused. The package was then slated to be returned to sender, As the sender lives in a different country, the package needed to clear customs. Once the package was received in customs there was no paper work accompanied with it so the package was deemed illegal and contents destroyed.

SOOO Lets try and understand this. Jim did not return or refuse the package, The package never left LA. There is zero tracking to prove this. Anyway I asked to speak to the supervisor. and within 24 hours I received a call back. Not from the supervisor, but a person informing me the case on this item in question has been closed and there is no further action.

Now just for fun, I took a seed and mailed it to the Martins in Wisconsin with ZERO paper work, Did not fill out the declaration, left it blank , and guess what it arrived safe and sound.

My take on this, we live in a couple country's that are SO SCREWED UP its pathetic. No accountability
So sad Don's seeds were destroyed. BUT we did save the United States from a certain disaster had they made it through!!!!!

3/15/2023 5:50:53 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Oh one more thing. funny how the original was refused and returned but after all the crap, all the bubbles were sent to Jim empty of course.

3/15/2023 5:53:48 PM

Grittyville, WA

Punish the lawful/those with good intentions, reward the lawbreakers... for some reason this is too frequently the way it is.

3/15/2023 7:02:09 PM

Syracuse, NY

You're singin' my song, Little Kins! eg

3/15/2023 7:05:47 PM

Nova Scotia

This is so sad Eddy. Been through it countless times. All said and done, the time, expense and goodwill to go through this for a kick in the guts. But still to this day the "contents destroyed" is what bothers me? You would not believe some of horror stories with Customs and even our Canadian government agricultural officials on trying to ship seeds. Yes sir absolutely pathetic!

3/15/2023 7:42:23 PM

I wonder if "lightfinger Louie" was involved. Their excuse sounds very suspicious.. And I got a package today from an auction in the states with no paperwork as it was small enough and light enough to go as a lettermail/flatmail.

3/15/2023 7:57:20 PM

Hamilton - New Zealand

Gutted alright.

3/15/2023 9:53:27 PM

valtierra/spain

Eddy, the same thing is happening in Spain. The certified envelopes are all stopped at customs. I have paid 50 Euros for the gadberry envelope, and for others normally 30-40 euros, vanderwielen, all certified. Others have arrived at my house certified, and I have paid 5-7 euros. The envelopes that have been sent to me as a Christmas postcard, in a red envelope (Pete, tanner, Daletas, Dale Marshall and others), have all arrived perfectly in 7-10 Days. This year when we did the auction early, I sent all the envelopes on December 18, most of them going to the USA in red Christmas envelopes, with a small bubble inside, and they have all arrived. all uncertified. I think that to send the seeds to the clubs the ideal is to do that, send Christmas envelopes, uncertified. And from the clubs in the USA to Europe, or Europe to Usa, the most important thing is small envelopes, which look like normal cards, and the most important thing is to pray... : ))

3/16/2023 8:14:46 AM

Lymington UK

Your bang on Eddy and because of Brexit we can’t even send to Europe without the expensive paperwork.
Ruben worked out that by sending the smallest bubble with just a few seeds you could post straight into a letter box with no questions asked. Most of these get through. I took one of these bubbles into the post office on Monday to see what happens.
Guess what you have to give them your name, address and even your F!?!!ing DOB (what’s that got to do with anything)
So I sent it as a string sample …… If Letter police find out I’m sure in for a spanking.
Ian

3/16/2023 8:35:53 AM

Lymington UK

Ruben I sent 3 bubbles all at exactly the same time. All of them were going to Quinn. One got to him in days, the second one arrived about a week later and the third one took about a month. Is this witchcraft?
I’m doing a trial with Jester ((Mario) with just four seeds wrapped in one bit of thin cardboard in a standard business envelope.
Times out

3/16/2023 8:45:20 AM

Ontario

when I ship out any seeds i just send the bubble as an oversized letter with no paper work. They have always been delivered within a week. I am in Canada and never had a problem sending to the U.S. or even Australia.

3/16/2023 7:10:34 PM

Iowa

Ian, if you need any more trials to the U.S. you can send some 2907 seeds to me, lol. I'd let you know how long it took to arrive :)

3/16/2023 7:54:20 PM

If you are going to use Xmas size envelopes I would suggest between either a card or 2 thin pieces of cardboard fitted to size. Purpose of this is to keep and keep a blunt object from getting caught in rollers cancelling machine.
1st class lettermail/flatmail under the proper weight does not usually go through clearence.

3/16/2023 8:40:46 PM

Roseville CA

I don't know if this would be smart or not, but you know those electronic birthday cards? They are pretty thick envelopes, so I think something like that would work well. Also, I have gotta say, I don't think customs going into the USA check baggage often. Every time my grandpa visits from India he always brings a bag full of exotic Indian veggies that he is growing. Once I think he also got some cuttings...

3/17/2023 1:08:32 AM

Roseville CA

I wish doing it the "right way" was easier and less costly.

3/17/2023 1:09:27 AM

Syracuse, NY

Are there any Postal Worker Growers seeing all the tricks, lol? Might they be committed to report? If so, uh-oh, lol---eg

3/17/2023 2:07:19 AM

Peosta, Iowa

Find a postal worker you can trust, mine gives me pointers once in awhile

3/17/2023 5:43:19 AM

Nova Scotia

In reference to regular lettermail and protection, perhaps those hard clear plastic sleeves that are used for preserving sports cards may do the trick?

3/17/2023 11:32:33 AM

Nova Scotia

I would be so nice to come up with some International safe and cheap solution for growers to utilize and not worry about getting seeds across the borders. Back in the day it was great, however not so much anymore unfortunately.

3/17/2023 12:03:46 PM

Syracuse, NY

In my effort to look around I found this website and it may or may not help - I was thinking of it'd be like a sit-dwon with an adversary - 'We need to talk' and an advisor whom is on the inside or at least knows of what needs to accompany any export or import, which are the categories that can be accessed to at least research each topic in the menu.

There may need to be a JOINT effort to the Post Office and the Phyto certificate-issuing bodies to provide a
'safe passage' for the intended shipment(s).

YES, I may be researching and mentioning things that have already been done.

There WAS one guy whose email was available, but I wasn't gonna point him out, lol.
***I'd simply read 'Import' and 'Export' items from the menu in detail.
If you happen to see a link for Phytosanitary Certificate, check that out as well.
If it helps, great;
If not, well, in another life I might have gotten my European Squash seeds by now, lol!
eg

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/!ut/p/z1/fUxBDoIwELzzCi8ezUI0qEeCRkTjGXppVqxSLS20xejvbZBELriH2ZmdmQXiTSaeG8gccbSHsQ1E4pPf0HIlUUAGOQnpKYh3_moRHHfbTeBHyXp_SJahH6dzSLvirz8EIP-7Wd_t4yMLcn5vGhIBKZS07GUhw7rkhnZSWir4WaN-T32DVLWaXlXRmk7VAp1fMhS27A68qpW2X4_pitthrketLm0xNIz7qL-Uy5u7VyjETChrZoaxC9QPkn8A2fIj0w!!/

3/17/2023 1:08:48 PM

Syracuse, NY

sit-down

triple-left-click the link text anywhere and then right-click the highlighted area and then left-click 'Go to...' for fast access. eg

3/17/2023 1:13:37 PM

Indiana

I sent seeds to Ruben this year in regular letter envelope with a piece of cardboard just the same size as envelope and stuffed seeds inside cardboard and made it just fine.

3/17/2023 1:17:30 PM

Western NY

Its not going to get any better:

https://www.usps.com/international/new-eu-customs-rules.htm

3/17/2023 2:14:09 PM

Nova Scotia

Starting to see a trend here with use of cardboard and regular envelope which is cool to protect seeds. Spudder mentioned those postal machines which somewhat still concerns me as to their pressure and "squashing" a prized seed? Some small post offices still hand stamp out going letter mail which would be better. Lots to think about.

3/17/2023 2:25:04 PM

Syracuse, NY

These were the smallest I could find and they make a TON of other types and sizes,
butt since I found what I'd be looking for, that's a miracle!
I figured that low-profile, clear to see the seeds and
most-likely 'crush-proof' were all key elements...
If yer worried about the seeds rattling around, just pack more in there for me!
laters---eric g

https://www.amazon.com/Hulless-Aluminum-Refillable-Containers-Container/dp/B08D6HL7X5?th=1

3/17/2023 5:19:08 PM

valtierra/spain

Ian, the envelopes that you sent me with the 4 seeds, for the Spanish auction including 2907, only 1 arrived. We used another one for the auction that you sent to Salvador, from my winning bet in GPC for the weight of 2907, I think I put 2904... but I have a doubt where the envelopes that were lost are, did they resend them to your HOME Ian?

3/17/2023 5:58:21 PM

Penryn California

Sent seeds to Germany just after our California auction January 9. They are still “held in customs” despite having all the correct paperwork. Maybe the thick Christmas card is a good solution. Might try it this next season.

3/17/2023 6:37:38 PM

Boscawen, NH

Used Rubens suggestion of Christmas card envelope for all my seeds going to Europe. All were returned 30 days later with a stern warning that "only" paper documents could be mailed out of the country without a customs form completed. And as Andy mentioned above, as of March 1 anything going to the Eu will require a detailed description of the contents and will be checked more thoroughly.

3/18/2023 9:18:00 AM

Georgia

Next year should be easier. Just assign various people as international "mules" at the GPC meeting in Belgium. :-)

3/18/2023 9:26:54 AM

Nova Scotia

Honestly after seeing what other growers' have experienced sending seeds and what we have gone through over the years, still leaves us in the fog so to speak. Ridiculous rules and regulations keep changing constantly back and forth! Some Customs officials let them through, some return the package and some destroy the contents unfortunately???

3/18/2023 10:21:20 AM

Syracuse, NY

Good thing for me that I don't have to worry about any of this, lol!
US to US and other countries to other countries.
I have NEVER had seeds NOT show up from another grower nor auction when it's been from within the US.
If you risk anything knowing that it could go awry, it is your
risk that you took and no one is to blame other than the risk-taker in that respect.
Sounds to ME like a piece of paper accompanying a seed package that has
'Atlantic Giant Pumpkin Seeds' on it is all that is required.
Hand me a pen.
Oh, and, maybe sending PARTIAL, identical shipments a few days APART would be a good idea, you know, 'Don't put all your seeds in one envelope'.
Just sayin'---eg

3/18/2023 12:12:19 PM

Syracuse, NY

PERFECT TIMING!!!
I just got my European Squash Lot from the EGVGA;
8 squash seeds in each its own clear, vacuum-sealed or
manila, standard seed packet - that one stapled.
The envelope is of heavy, white cardboard, single-layer, zip-to-open
with a label depicting all information & with an integral scan label.
There was no bubble wrap of any kind.
YAY!!!
Perhaps a Gerry Greenie this year!
I ALSO got my OVGPG seeds from last Sunday's auction.
YAY!!!
Perhaps a Gerry 1000-plus this year!

Timing is everything and sometimes the strangest thing;
Here I was typing what I typed and one of its contradictions
(or examples?) was in the mailbox!
In thinking about it, going to the mailbox, I was not referring to the
initial cause of this post to begin with of Don Crews' seeds and the way
THEY were handled by the parties involved -

If you'd ever gotten 'The LOOK' from Eddy Z, you'd know better than to ever find fault, lol!

So, my suggestions are *rhetorical*, (I love when my name is in a word) and what can be gleaned
and used from them simply should be!
later---eric g

*"...of speaking or writing formally and effectively especially as a way to persuade or influence people."*

3/18/2023 1:15:51 PM

Grittyville, WA

I think travelling the old silk road was less dangerous than the modern postal system lol. Empty spot in lineup, maybe swap in a 2110 Platte seeds instead and call it a day, idk.

3/18/2023 1:17:36 PM

organic quitar pics

3/18/2023 6:24:03 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Just got one rejected it was heading to Germany…sent many in the past

3/18/2023 9:30:25 PM

Just out of curiosity, did the ones that got rejected get handed to a clerk or did you throw them in a street box for pick up?
For the record there was a list of criteria for foreign bound mail that came out just before Xmas. Front counter/ hand sorted is most likely to find things.

3/18/2023 10:13:13 PM

Westmoreland, KS

eBay mailbox

3/18/2023 10:51:59 PM

There is something red flagging these letters such as too thick for lettermail (AG seeds are usually too thick for lettermail and would be flatmail based on thickness, think postage) Any thing coming from online auction sites would be suspect.
And I am wondering if there is something set up such as potato processing equipment for the mail (do not laugh at that) but I am leaning towards something red flagging them as just shear volumes make it hard to ckeck all mail

https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/innovative-solutions-canada/en/postal-small-packet-and-package-inspection

3/19/2023 7:06:45 AM

This might be a solution if all else fails. Might still be an option. Search "small lot seed importer" as different seed affect quantity.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=small%20lot%20seed%20importer&form=ANNTH1

3/19/2023 7:28:02 AM

Here is the proper link

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/buying-selling-plants-seeds-online/seeds/seeds-additional-requirements-ecommerce#:~:text=Small%20quantities%20of%20seed%20may%20be%20imported%20under,grams%20of%20seed%20of%201%20taxon%20per%20packet.

3/19/2023 7:33:31 AM

Westmoreland, KS

Mine wasn’t too thick it was intentional shipping I had all the correct information on it. When you ship it through eBay they want all the information so the label has all of that information on it

3/19/2023 8:28:02 AM

Westmoreland, KS

Here is what eBay said:

Our shipping partners have notified us that the package cannot be delivered due to Restricted/Prohibited Item. These issues can include custom restrictions, country sanctions, brand restrictions or eBay program restrictions.

3/19/2023 8:28:29 AM

Seeds are a restricted item (Phyto) but seeds coming my way come through because of a small seed lot rule.
I have received seeds in regular envelopes recently but not any size that would cause a bump in the letter so something is causing a red flag with the AGs.

3/19/2023 11:53:28 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

I started collecting coins a few years back, and have a had recent deliveries from Portugal, Ireland and... Ukraine. It's crazy I can get obsolete currency from a war-torn country in an envelope taped to a piece of cardboard, delivered to my mailbox, and at the same time pumpkin seeds are destroyed.

Que the Twilight Zone song

3/20/2023 10:26:58 AM

That State Up North

Don Young has the correct answer to all customs questions

3/20/2023 9:46:44 PM

Colorado

Guitar pick?

3/21/2023 5:25:16 PM

Westmoreland, KS

yeah cojoe pull out the Old guitar and one of your pumpkin seeds and start jamming!

3/22/2023 9:21:41 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

Maybe put "fentanyl" on the bubble. That seems to get across pretty easy.

3/22/2023 11:00:54 AM

Jericho Vermont

The Vermont club just got seeds successfully to Switzerland but had to work through USDA for a phytosanitary certificate. This was adequate for AG, squash, long gourd and marrow. Tomatoes have to be physically tested and it looks like only 2 labs in the USA that does this.

3/22/2023 5:11:59 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

OMG it would be easier to ship an automobile and tuck the seeds inside a hubcap.

3/22/2023 6:47:46 PM

Bethlehem CT

LOL Ned

3/22/2023 7:40:38 PM

Bethlehem CT

a little different but the same idea. Watch it if you want a good laugh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHfiMoJUDVQ

3/22/2023 7:44:03 PM

Syracuse, NY

Unbdoubtedly, increasingly very funny and headphones-only with kids around.
Oh, they gotta lern sumtyme, lol at 2:05.
I was grinning the whole time and busted out and realized what
our problem really is -
SEED CROSSES' WEIGHTS are too big!
This is why my 178s and 245s go just fine;
(2296 X 1161)? Oh, better open that one up!
later---eric g

3/23/2023 12:36:53 AM

stoughton WI

using small 4 x 5 white bubbles works really well, you may have to send 2 or 3 but it's still cheaper to send things this way without customs form. and haven't had many issues from what I've been told.

3/24/2023 9:06:15 PM

Pittsburgh, PA

I received all three of the envelopes IanP sent me for the PGPGA auction but they were spread about over almost a month. I thought for sure the last envelope wasn't gonna make it but then it showed up. Such a relief.

3/27/2023 2:38:37 PM