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Austria

I have a question concerning you german giant AG growers. Just read one of Christian (meseb)`s last posts and realized the following. Both, the weigh off for the German Championship and the European Championship will be held at Ludwigsburg this year. The German Championship on the 2nd of October, and the European Championship a week later on 9th. Not that this would be to important for myself but I am curious nevertheless. Who of you german growers will attend or visit both events and have you thought about what to do with your pumpkins in the meanwhile. Will you have to take them back home and bring them again one week later. Can you leave them at Ludwigsburg for a week. Will you stay there for a week. Will you get your pumpkin home and bring another one the following weekend. If I had to take a ride of more than 200 km I really wouldn`t know how to manage or what kind of possibilities are given. Just curious or maybe ... I'll come and watch both ... I`ve been quite a dozen of weekends at Ludwigsburg in the past for we don`t have rock clubs in Austria like the Rockfabrik in Ludwigsburg which is my favourite one. I`m looking forward to one or both of these having fun day and night ;-))

8/16/2005 5:42:35 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I planned on attending both the German and the European weighoff. However, I am now not absolutely sure anymore. Reason for this is described below.
You won't have to worry about taking your fruit back home if you take any of the first three places at the German or European weighoff. These fruits belong to Jucker after receiving the price money from them. You never get back the pumpkin, nor the seeds out of it. Jucker usually displays the fruit until the pumpkin exhibition is over, then cuts the fruits open to get the seeds which they are then selling.
A few growers (Peter!?) seem to have managed getting back at least a part of the seeds out of their fruits but this is not the rule and you can't do anything if Jucker won't give them back to you.
And that's exactly the reason why I might not go to Ludwigsburg. I have some nice crosses going this year that I was planning on all year long. Now I made them and would hate to never seed a seed...
So, either I can come to an agreement with Jucker about getting the seeds back (that means I will go there and cut the pumpkin open myself and remove the seeds) or I won't go to the weighoff.

To address your question whether one can leave the pumpkins (places 4 and down) in Ludwigsbug after the German weighoff until the European weighoff or not, the answer is "yes". They will be happy to keep the pumpkin there for you for the week.

If I decide to go to the German weighoff and don't come in among the first three then I will definitely take my fruit back home with me that day. The next week I might then just drive to Ludwigsburg without a pumpkin just to watch the competition. It just doesn't make any sense to me going to the European weighoff with a fruit that didn't make the top three in Germany.

8/16/2005 6:29:33 AM

Knopp, Germany

Jucker is our only sponsor. They sponsor the weigh off, have all the costs, and offer the prize money. It is their show, the only one in town as they say, which allows them to do what they wish. For those of us that do not have the time or energy to organize our own club and raise funds for a weigh off, we are very fortunate to have Jucker. Without them, I would not have ever become as interested in our hobby as I presently am.

I intend on attending both events. I did not go in 2004 because I had nothing to show. But, in 2003 I took 2 pumpkins with me, and brought them both back home after the German Championship. I then took a third pumpkin to the European Championship in Switzerland. I also brought that pumpkin home with me after the weigh off. It was my only way of having officially weighed pumpkins, and I am greatful for having Jucker around for that reason alone. They were very enjoyable events, and I got to meet some very nice people at both of them.

I did not receive any prize money for my pumpkins. If I had been fortunate enough to place in the top 3, and I wanted the seeds for myself, I would have simply refused the prize money.

There are also weigh offs in Koeln and in Belgium, that I might one day consider going to. I am not concerned with winning any money anyhow.

Heino, the Rockfabrik....LOL How does that Jethrow Tull song go, I am..."Too Old To Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young To Die!"

owen

8/16/2005 7:21:01 AM

Knopp, Germany

By the way, one of my dreams, should I ever win the lottery is to ship one of my pumpkins back to the states and go to one of the big wiegh offs their, maybe Topsfield. One can dream.

8/16/2005 7:34:15 AM

Cologne / Germany

We now have our "own" local weigh-off at a castle near Cologne, and they tried to get in contact with Jucker from Ludwigsburg with no results.
Last year I took my pumpkins there which had officially been the biggest in Germany in 2004. It was a great event with music, family fun and good press coverage.
It´s absurd and not possible that at the same time Jucker in Ludwigsburg claimed to have the No. 1 in Germany, and they still do so on their website:
http://www.juckerfarmart.ch/events_0404.php
Both of my pumpkins weighed app. 100 lbs more than those showed in Ludwigsburg.
I loved to go to Ludwigsburg and meet the growers, but it´s a long way to drive (more than 300 miles one way) and the situation is not okay if we have other weigh-off´s in the future. The biggest national pumpkin officially weighed is the biggest pumpkin, nuff said.

8/16/2005 8:01:17 AM

Austria

I think both of you, Martin amd Owen, have a point, a very different one though. I can understand that if one works hard on a certain cross, which might be promising, one cannot accept to have taken the pumpkin away if it hits the top three. It wouln`t make any sense. Martin, if they would let you participate and give you the option to keep the pumpkin when refusing to take the price money, that would be ok, but first make sure that it is really like that. It is true that these events surely need sponsors, a place, a lot of planning and work without that big profit in the end, I dare to imagine. For me personnally things are much more simple and though I know I won`t be competitive, I would like to bring my biggest pumpkin to the European Weigh Off just to "have" something there and feel more like a grower than a bare visitor. Of course you experienced growers don`t have to prove anything and so this could even be hard to understand when you are already established as an AG grower for years and known throughout Europe or even the world. And for I am not german I won`t be able to attend at Oct. 2nd. So I hope to be there one week later. If I have soemthing heavier than 100 kg I most likely will bring it. I have a bet going with Ede`s girlfriend (the sister of mygirlfriend) that if I have something over 100 kg she will have to bring it to Ludwigsburg with her Ford Bronco. I`m quite motivated even if at last the sake of my pumpkin will depend on her driving skills ;-))

8/16/2005 8:20:29 AM

Knopp, Germany

LOL, I hope you win the bet Heino! And I hope it is 200 kg, ROFLMAO, the Bronco will be hurting!!!!

Ingo, I agree with you that the idea of calling the 2 October weigh off in Ludwigsburg the "German Champsionship" is a bad idea. I also agree with you that regardless of when or where grown, the biggest is the German Champ, and that is why you deserved all the credit that you got last year for being the German Champion.

8/16/2005 9:06:32 AM

Austria

Owen, you don`t know her driving style, not only the Bronco would suffer. If I imagine all the fears that come with letting her transport my biggest pumpkin, I`m not sure if I want to win really - lol! When we eventually arrive at Ludwigsburg myself will be to old to Rock`n Roll or at least feel like it ;-)) Will have to take a deep Locomotive Breath to recover then.

Ingo I agree, the heaviest officially weighed pumpkin should also be considered the German Champion or let`s say his grower. It would be appropriate if there was a system of approval between the existing organisations or people who organize weigh offs. Also it seems not realistic taking in consideration what you wrote.

8/16/2005 11:41:56 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I also agree with Ingo, nothing to it!
The biggest fruit weighed on certified scales (either at a weighoff or at another scale with witnesses) is the country's record. That's the way how it works everywhere in the world.

And I think I know why they are calling their weighoff the "German weighoff". When they first had the idea of organizing a weighoff in the late 1990s they got in contact with Ray Waterman from the WPC. He has been organizing a weighoff in NY for many years and was calling it the "World Weighoff" and was the person who got Jucker started. I am pretty sure that it was also Ray Waterman who they got the idea of keeping the pumpkin after the weighoff from. Didn't Ray keep the winner of the WPC weighoff and sell the seeds via P&P?

Refusing the prize money and then taking the fruit back home would certainly work. Nothing Jucker can do about that. But I think it is hard to refuse hundreds or even thousands of Euros in case you should really win, isn't it?

And please, don't get me wrong. I am not against all what Jucker is doing, just the point with the seeds. I am aware of what they did for us pumpkin growers.
But if they have no sponsors and need to finance the prize money themselves I think it would be a better idea to offer less prize money and give the pumpkins back to the growers instead of being able to offer more prize money because they get some of that money back by selling the seeds.

Heino, I am sure that you can get one over 100 kg with ease, with your late sets and the come-back of summer now I think you even have a chance at 200 kg.
Does that bet also say that she has to load the pumpkin herself? Make sure to take pictures! LOL

8/16/2005 11:52:44 AM

Western NY

(non-european viewpoint here, although i am mostly German, lol):

Yes, as far as I know Ray was the one who started the policy of keeping/ selling seeds from the top 3 at his site. A lot of the other things sound very familiar also.

Here's some tips from someone who has seen this process evolve quite a bit since i got started:

- Try to work a deal out with the site. Let them know you want at least a small cut of your seeds back. They may be agreeable since the other option would be one or more less pumpkins for them to show.

- Look into other weighoff options. Competing sites (not necessarily on the same day) is an advantage for the growers. When there are more options for the grower, the sites will make the conditions more favorable to attract growers. This part take time and effort. Think for a long term strategy, and get more growers involved.

good luck this year guys!

8/16/2005 12:04:22 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Very good advice, Andy!

Your second point is very good but is hard to make real. Maybe in the future when we have more growers in different parts of Germany and when (big) pumpkins got more popular.

Your first point, however, is something I was already planning to do. Telling them that you won't attend at all if they keep all the seeds will most likely work. Jucker has always offered extras in order to get more growers to the weighoff. Telling them that you have a 1000 pounder (one can dream...LOL) and that you won't come just because of the policy with the seeds will certainly put you in a good position for negotiation.

8/16/2005 12:17:39 PM

Western NY

Yep, there were two other things i forgot to mention -

You may want to try to make a seed deal with them. If they are selling the seeds to average gardeners, you could give them seeds (possibly in a greater amount) from smaller pumpkins, with seeds less important to you - instead of them taking the seeds from the biggest ones.

Also, when it comes to an alternate weighoff site, be sure to get the tv and papers to cover it, and that the scales are accurate. This way there is no dispute over records.

8/16/2005 1:12:58 PM

Loitsche/Sachsen-Anhalt/Germany

Excuse me, this landed post at Owen's posting first (see me URL)

Heino, owen and all others,
I come back at to subject Owen, the European Growers to organisation to the discussion.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=23&p=127297
1. To the participation in a central one effort exceeds cradles the the strengths little cultivators, however
2. At present, there are not enough fanatical enthusiasts of the giant pumpkins to fill many great events.
Therefore I also think that a weighing in a decentralised system at several places still is not ripe. The time will come.
If my pumpkin would be put, I would like to keep seeds. It is a part of the copyright. Ichg would negotiate or do without the price for this. Juckar organizes a great celebration with blubea also many visitors to which come and pay a good price for the inspection. Only a small portion but much are advertising the pumpkin cradles. It would be just if the cultivator gets a good part of the seeds.
Lives let ;-)

My distance amounts to 610 km. Whether I will take part in Ludwigsburg with pumpkin on October 2nd depends on a favourable transport opportunity. Unfortunately, no bet has won yet to solve this problem in my favour. I come also as a spectator.

Pumpkin weather, Christian, say hello and good

8/16/2005 3:44:53 PM

Belgium

At least give the winner 10% of the seeds!! This is not the way to go, all the efforts to grow a big fruit and then not having any seeds of it is out of the question. I can not understand this rule of Jucker, and who is he anyway??

8/16/2005 4:42:00 PM

Belgium

Is Ludwigsburg near Stuttgart? In that case it is more than 500 km for me, a long way with a trailer. I thought there was a weigh-off in Köln to, is this correct? If so are there the same incredible rules about the seeds? And what about the weigh-off in Seegraben (Swiss)?

8/16/2005 4:52:27 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

1. Yes, Ludwigsburg is near Stuttgart.

2. Yes, there is also a weighoff near Köln (Burg Konradsheim).

http://www.bigpumpkins.de/Wettbewerb/wettbewerb.html
http://www.bigpumpkins.de/Wettbewerb/Gewinner2004/gewinner2004.html


Contact person:

Herr Degenhard Neisse
Burg Konradsheim
50374 Erftstadt-Konradsheim

Tel. 0177-6901800
Fax 02235-953702
EMail groesster-kuerbis-deutschlands@gmx.de

It was first carried out last year; Ingo Lenz weighed his two big pumpkins (largest in Germany in 2004) there. However, as far as I know there are no cash prizes. The winner got a wellness weekend and something else if I am not mistaken. The prize structure for 2005 has not been published yet but it looks like no cash prizes again.
They have the same seed-rule as Jucker. “Die Eigentumsrechte der Kürbisse der jeweils ersten 3 Ränge gehen an den Veranstalter, diese Kürbisse können nicht wieder mitgenommen werden.“ (http://www.bigpumpkins.de/Wettbewerb/Bedingungen/bedingungen.html)
3. For the first time, in 2005 the weighoff in Seegräber is only for growers from Switzerland (Swiss Championship). In former years Jucker held the Swiss and the European weighoff there, this year the European weighoff will be held in Ludwigsburg just like the German weighoff.

8/16/2005 5:21:29 PM

Itzetown City

Jantje, the former europaen championship in Seegäben is this year in Ludwigsburg (Germany) and yes Ludwigsburg is near Stuttgart. First place of european championship took 2000 Euros and if the first place weight in over 500 kg they will pay 1000 Euro more.
I don't know the rules of the weighoff in Köln, but as far as I remember they only accept Growers living in Nordrhein-Westfalen, all others should be only for exhibition.
Refer to the "seed problem" Andy hit the nail! And beside the deal 10% of the seed or some seeds for other seeds, it's also my opinion, the "monopol" Jucker comes down if more national weighoffs take place.
But on the other hand I would'nt complain the behavior of Jucker. I think it's a huge prize (2000 or 3000 Bucks) for european relations.

8/16/2005 5:37:36 PM

Cologne / Germany

Martin, the Cologne weigh-off is not like you read - I got all my 2004 seeds back right before the (empty) pumpkins went to the Cologne zoo for the elephants and a Halloween exposition.
It was much fun and press coverage for the organizer and the sponsor, but in no way they take the seeds (or even the pumpkin) away from the grower without further agreement.
Some of the information on this website is wrong because it´s not the official website of Burg Konradsheim or Mr. Neisse.
In future I would prefer cash prizes, but me and my family as "the winners" we had some very nice events (Restaurant, Musical, Wellness Hotel) so there´s nothing to complain about.
I really like to support this weigh-off in the future because it´s fun and local. We even have one of my seeds growing in the TV-garden of our biggest TV station (WDR) because they wanted to be "in the boat".
It´s not possible to have one weigh-off for the whole country anyway.
It´s not like that in the US, why over here?

8/16/2005 6:21:49 PM

Austria

Martin,

I hope the bet was "loading inclusive" but I`m afraid it was not. Would have been fun to watch, she`s strong though but is she as smart as Boerje, who obviously knows how to load a real big one all by yourselves. LOL.

Christian,

you are too late to bet. Noone who has seen your pumpkins will bet with you because they are WAY to big. That`s a small price you have to pay for growing such huge things.

There is one thing I really want to discuss: There are sites like Jucker or even the Austian Championship in Styria who will promote that those who take let`s say places 1-3 are "qualified" for the European Championship. Nothing wrong with it, but promotion only I believe. Let`s say I don`t attend the Austrian or German Championship ... am I then not qualified top attend the European Championship? I believe not. They will let me attend the European Championship wheter I have been at the Austrian or German Championship before or not, that`s quite for sure. Because how then should an Italian, French or Belgian grower qualify?

8/17/2005 2:47:09 AM

Austria

Wow, I didn`t expect such a big discussion to develop in this thread. It shows well that there are really some critical approaches to the topic as well as gratitude towards Jucker to make it happen. Quite a wide range to make a point so. As already mentioned I understand you Martin for you surely have some of the most valuable seeds planted in Europe and so the crosses could have the potential to be asked for from all over the world. You most likely will prefer to change your seeds with growers like you have done in the years before rather than see them being sold to people. On the other hand I think Martin`s situation is an exception to the rule. Hans Werner is right, the prize money really is not that bad. I was quite surprised to be honest. I can understand that Jucker wants to have soemthing in return, be it to cover their expenses or even to make profit, I can`t tell. And considering the situation given it will not even be a favor for Jucker to have somebody taking places 1 to 3 and then not being able to promote that they are able to provide their customors with the seeds from the top 3 pumpkins in Europe but instead with seeds from a pumpkin which took 4th. So far so good, but considering the price money for the German weigh off it is more difficult because you could end up third and taking 200.- Euro which is not that much if you have plans with your seeds. I do not agree with the problem to decide between money and seeds if you have the choice. That would be a quite simple economical one. You could negotiate easily to keep 20 for you and then maybe take some of the money, let`s say 100 Euro and buy back some more seeds which you then could trade with other growers. But then still the pumpkin is gone and you won`t have them for display at home.

8/17/2005 2:50:51 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I agree with everything what you say, Heino. Difficult decisions for sure! Especially if you think the seeds have great genetics and potential.

And yes, you are right. Telling that the top three pumpkins from the German, Austrian, etc. weighoff are qualified for taking part in the European weighoff is only promotion. I think the idea behind it is to get more participants at the European weighoff by really inviting the top three growers.
And yes, everybody showing up with a pumpkin the morning of the European weighoff can also enter it.
They ask for registration a few days or weeks before the weighoff but they won't refuse accepting your entry if you didn't register.

8/17/2005 8:43:08 AM

Loitsche/Sachsen-Anhalt/Germany

Heino,
for today my pumpkin is already a little big. For the competition he is a little too small again because he will hardly improve his performance. I would then like one I take back great; -), that I would knock out the price money. It is quite good anyway to spend a good weekend. Seeds which are needed for other cultivators for the exchange surely can be negotiated with light driving horse.
Ludwigsburg lies actually relatively for the participation of one Europe weigh-off in the centre. And the ambiance is an experience for all participants. I was 2003 in the exhibition. I was very impressed.

8/17/2005 1:14:53 PM