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Grittyville, WA

If I took some soil samples now and put them in plastic bags, could I test them at the end of the season to see after the fact where the soil was at? (It’s maybe not likely) but supposing I did get a really exceptional result... then maybe I would want to know why or how I got such a good result after the fact. I know that’s kinda backwards, but the first year I grew I had good results. I then tested the patch the next year and saw where the values were at—which I thought was useful— because then when I look at those numbers I already know that those numbers gave me a good result.

I don’t have $200-300 to spend on soil testing every year. Well... not this year anyhow right at this moment. I can guess what I need based on past tests and past results. It’s not optimal this way, but I’m ok with hobby level results... and honestly if I had the money and wanted seriously to be competitive I would probably spend $1000 without hesitation.

Anyhow the point is if I took samples from all of my patches now, then maybe later in three to six months I could test only the samples of the patches where there is an exceptionally good or bad result... and that way I could learn the most information with the least expense?

Would the soil samples be accurate, if sealed in sandwich bags for 3-6 months and stored for testing if I think getting the results would be worthwhile later?

5/2/2018 11:36:43 AM

Grittyville, WA

Western Labs says it should be ok.

5/2/2018 11:52:47 AM

Grittyville, WA

*ok for nutrients. not ok for pathogens.

5/2/2018 11:54:55 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

That sounds like a big waste of money...you test prior to correct and give optimal conditions for the plants.

5/3/2018 7:50:55 AM

On a cliff in the desert

If you are serious about growing a 1500+ pound pumpkin, you can't cut corners on soil preparation. It's a fixed amount in your growing budget each year. It's table stakes for competition. Buying the best seeds and not spending the money to properly prepare soil for them is a big waste of money on seeds. You might as well buy junk seeds if you're cutting corners on soil preparation.

5/3/2018 12:43:00 PM

Grittyville, WA

Lol I buy seeds then run out of money and then plant mostly seeds I got for postage anyhow... yes not logical & not smart.

5/3/2018 4:09:31 PM

Grittyville, WA

Not trying for 1500 lbs this year. Mostly doing 150 sq ft patches, blossom-down. It is just less fun if I have to spend more than I can afford to, so I’m gonna cut some corners. I feel confident I can read the plants for issues well enough to hit 800 or so. But if I did hit 1,000 in 150 everyone would want to know what my soil was at... and so would I. Thanks guys.

5/3/2018 4:30:03 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

You don’t need 200-300 bucks a year for testing. Cecil Weston told me about UMASS last year and they run $15 for a complete analysis. I’ve been using them since.

5/3/2018 6:33:53 PM

On a cliff in the desert

Even if you want to grow a 700 pound pumpkin in 150 sq ft you have to properly prepare your soil and no cutting corners. You're dreaming of hitting 1000 pounds in an unprepared soil.

5/3/2018 7:59:46 PM

Grittyville, WA

Last year six tests cost me a little over $200. $15 is a good value... Thanks. I do plan to do as much soil prep as I feel is necessary. I had one plant I wanted to get out early and although tilling first would have been ideal but I thought there was enough soil and nutrients in that location to at least get the plant started. I will be prepping my 150 patches only as much as I feel is necessary... half my worms are gonna be... well... cut in half.

5/4/2018 4:55:05 AM

Grittyville, WA

I will decide which patch to use for the competition very soon, before any testing the soil or planting any plants. This one patch will be my “official patch” and that will be my entry good or bad. I’ll try to hit 1,000 but last year I only hit 400’s.

Off topic but... In all fairness, mobeymike probably would have hit 1,000 last year with a different plant.

5/4/2018 5:16:31 AM

Grittyville, WA

Getting totally off topic... It appears he was on track to hit 1200. It had some vine issue though and part of the plant was removed.

Thanks for the help.

5/4/2018 5:33:42 AM

Hey Greg, why don't you actually read the question before throwing your two cents in. Dude was asking if samples would be viable after a few months...
Then you start spouting off like some kind of expert.
You have No room to be giving anybody any advice!

What's your PB, btw???

9/19/2018 12:40:30 PM

Grittyville, WA

We are all learning even the guys with 2k under their belt should admit they dont know everything... Everyone is doing the best they can. I think wile was just saying what he knows and i appreciate that. If he comes across to you as saying he is smarter than anyone else then thats a miscommunication maybe... Well whatever the case may be lets just try to keep the forums focused on learning and sharing.

9/19/2018 1:10:52 PM

Sorry! Just can't stand a know it all, especially one that has Never even grown an AG...

9/19/2018 3:16:20 PM

Nampa

Yes you can "save" soil to test later. $300 / year gets you a full in season program of soil tests and petiole and disease tests. Just a regular soil test isn't bad and is the best value in improving your next season. My opinion has changed the last couple of years. I'd rather plant a free seed with good genetics (and they are all good) and spend a bit on the test. The perfect seed is not the silver bullet. The most important thing is to enjoy the season, the process and results-it's not all in our control anyway.

9/19/2018 4:40:21 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I am guessing that advanced soil tests would change slightly for stored samples as the biological activity changes the forms. I would think the actual N,P,K numbers would not change but the form that these nutrients are in could change..such as nitrite-nitrate ratios. I would be interested to know what the measured OM level be from a long term stored sample. As the microbes break down the organic material..does it remain measurably organic?

9/19/2018 5:20:03 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I spent a few more minutes of contemplating how to keep a soil sample as accurate in composition as possible. I am wondering if you would freeze the samples..could you slow down the microbiology enough for a really accurate representation of what you had. Could this even put the pathogens on hold for later analysis. Glenomkins, I know you like science. Maybe test it out when you have a few extra dollars. Take a sample and divide it. Send one in for testing immediately and seal and freeze the other sample. If you had more money could try to store samples in different manners. I would like to know what the results would be.

9/19/2018 5:55:43 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

@ _dirt_ don’t be sorry....there are a few newbies each year that throw out advice and guesses in about every post on the board...it gets under my skin too, especially when it’s other new growers looking for real advice, and they get someone guessing or repeating something “they heard”.

9/19/2018 10:42:29 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Glenomkins, get a soil sample in the spring and amend accordingly (get a mentor or 2 to advise you) and do a sample in the fall also (if you can afford it) and also amend the soil before you plant a cover crop.

I do a few tissue tests each year, it seems to help me with my fertilizer program.

A mentor is the best thing possible. A set of fresh eyes to look at your soil sample results and make suggestions.

9/19/2018 10:47:15 PM

Grittyville, WA

No more cutting the wrong corners here... Going to try for something very special next year. Inspired by these suggestions. Thank you.

9/20/2018 1:12:07 AM

On a cliff in the desert

Jesse, You are such a hypocrite. You sent me an abusive/disrespectful email calling me a dumbass for following Joe Ailt's recommendation that I increase the amount of fertilizer I am using and make your own suggestion after I had a plant tissue done. Why am I a dumbass for following a fertilizer expert's advice? Why is your suggestion better than Joe Ailt's? I sent you an email saying I wasn't going to send you anymore emails and your emails would go into my spam folder. You said fine. You kept sending me abusive/disrespectful emails. I noticed that every time I would put something in my grower diary you would send me an abusive/disrespectful email. I baited you into confirming this by mentioning that I was going to put dog poop into my witches brew that I was making for my tomatoes. I then blocked your emails from coming to me. Are you a bully, abuser, stalker, or psychopath that makes you feel a compulsion to write an abusive/disrespectful email to me every time I put an entry into my grower diary? Now you opened up an old post that I replied to. Why do you have an obsession with me? Am I going to cause you to have a mental breakdown if I don't have a grower diary next year? You've cursed your patch for next year by acting cocky that you are bringing a pumpkin to a weigh off and I am not. I realized that I wasn't going to be able to grow a pumpkin big enough for a weigh off so I concentrated on growing good genetics for next year. Glenomkins said my crossing of the Tobeck 1836 and Tobeck 2002 was smart. Cindy Tobeck told me she liked my crosses. Maybe Cindy and a few other growers might want to grow my seeds from these crosses despite coming from small pumpkins. Don't act apologetic. You've had plenty of time to apologize to me. Don't act like a victim. I'm your victim of bad behavior. You had your fun writing those abusive/disrespectful emails and now it's time to answer for them.

9/21/2018 11:09:03 AM

On a cliff in the desert

Jesse is _dirt_ for those who don't know who I am talking about.

9/21/2018 12:22:26 PM

Grittyville, WA

Two strong personalities. Since I am in the middle of it here's what you are going to do: turn the other cheek. Forgive the first offence you can hold your head up and walk away. I don't get to see my own kids nearly as much as I want to... Im adopting... You guys are my new kids ok :)

9/21/2018 1:22:14 PM

On a cliff in the desert

Dad, I just want the harassment to stop. Calling _dirt_ out in the BP court of public opinion is the only way to get it to end.

9/21/2018 2:33:16 PM

Actually Greg You are the one that initiated E-mail contact with me.
I NEVER asked you for your opinion about anything, you took it upon yourself to inflict me with it.
Just like you are doing here.
Why don't you get a few years under your belt before you start preaching how it's done

9/21/2018 4:56:28 PM

On a cliff in the desert

Why don't you just end the harassment or is that asking too much of you? I emailed you when you were going to quit and gave you words of encouragement. Time to end this. Just let it go.

9/21/2018 5:02:10 PM

You have some ego. Problem is, Your head is wayyy bigger than any pumpkin you've ever grown.
Don't worry! I won't be mailing you for ANYTHING anytime ever again

9/21/2018 5:18:49 PM

Including your shitty seeds : p

9/21/2018 5:24:58 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I am glad I have only one child. I never had the difficulty of negotiating sibling spats. Glenomkins, have you made any decisions about saving soil samples. I can understand your reasoning. I am looking at my garden this year. How many different places could I take a soil sample and get a different reading. This spring it all started the same. The section that has the pumpkins growing is going to be way different than the area that had the tomatoes growing. If this keeps up thru the years, I could have 8 different zones in 2500 sq ft.Will i want to ignore the differences and just amend to an average. Or do I want to spend the money for 24 tests....fall, spring pre-amend, spring post-amend. Testing is great...but like every thing in growing..resources must be balanced for best results.

9/21/2018 6:08:38 PM

Grittyville, WA

Good question bnot. I’m in the same boat... my tomato areas will become pumpkin areas. I might do a soil test or two but the distribution of nutrients will be uneven so here’s an idea: plant a cover crop then test the ground where it grows least well and amend the whole area accordingly? If some areas get a little too much that’s probably ok. Or amend heavier in the areas where the cover crop is lagging. I had roots going out 22 ft from the stump if there is an excess in one area and a deficiency in another area it will all even out. If having roots over a wide area doesn’t even things out... the problem will then show up in a tissue test. I’d say a couple soil tests and a couple tissue tests could be good enough rather than going overboard on the soil tests.

9/22/2018 12:55:43 AM

Grittyville, WA

I did only one tissue test... on my best plant. Even though it looked really good I was curious to see if anything was off.

If I take really good care of one plant I can apply what I learn to the others. I can’t afford to test every plant or every location and I’m ok with getting mixed results. Feel free to email me if you want to get into more detail.

9/22/2018 1:15:24 AM

Grittyville, WA

@ wile I will run a comparison on your seeds for you. I’ll put them up against a selfed x selfed I did... If they can keep up they’re probably good. If they come out ahead... well... then we’ll see what they do. I’m not a top grower but at least I’ll let you can see what my results are with them. Try to get an official weight even though it’s small then make sure info is linked correctly on the pumpkinfanatic site. I’m doing this with some of my crosses. It’s probably more of a gamble to use seeds that are not directly from a large pumpkin but I like the selfed x selfed thing and would be interested in running a comparison. Send me some later this fall or winter and I’ll trade you some seeds back?

9/22/2018 2:10:29 AM

Excellent idea, Brando!
That ought to really advance the hobby.
Perhaps a companion planting w/ your potatoes next season...
SMH

9/22/2018 11:39:34 AM

On a cliff in the desert

Brandon, I can take my Tobeck 1836 X Tobeck 2002 to a weighoff because its the size of a basketball. My Tobeck 2002 X Tobeck 1836 might be lucky to get the size of a softball by Halloween because my patch was trashed by a couple days of heavy rain and it needs that amount of time to make seeds. I'll email you after Halloween.

9/22/2018 12:39:51 PM

Grittyville, WA

If you have one that has been on the vine growing for 40+ days it could have viable seeds.
Season is basically over now though... Like you said...
Ttyl.

9/22/2018 9:30:08 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

You do not need an official fruit to list it on pumpkinfanatic, but you do need to do the work to list it yourself. I have been a bit lax in connecting the dots to the genetics of tomatoes that I have sent out, but I know I have made the effort on a few. If you are thinking the genetics can go on..it is worthwhile to get it listed. It will be UOW but the info will be there for future generations. If you need help with this Greg, I can assist.

9/22/2018 9:47:38 PM

On a cliff in the desert

Is there Wi Fi at Gale Woods? Halloween would be 42 DAP with the 2002 X 1836 cross if it doesn't abort. I have an anti critter cage on it that will allow it to grow to the size of a softball before I have to make it bigger. I am giving the 2002 plant a little more fertilizer since the leaves are trashed. I think these genetics could go on. They are selfed 2145 seeds that are crossed.

9/23/2018 12:24:48 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

You can harvest it after the weighoffs, greg, and still get it in the database. I would suggest trying to keep it going as long as you can. At some point you will get shut down by freezing. For seeds...you need length of time on vine..size is not as important. There have been quite a few big pumpkins grown from seeds from a 50 pound pumpkin.

9/23/2018 7:30:16 AM

Grittyville, WA

Well in my experience the idea that a pumpkin can get mature this time of year an overly optomistic idea. Love the optomism though. Thanks everyone for the comments.

9/23/2018 7:50:18 AM

What a joke. : D
You HAD good jeans (genes) Greg, but you crapped in your pants.

Couldn't pay me to grow your garbage!

9/23/2018 11:32:30 AM

On a cliff in the desert

Zip It. What qualifies you as a genetics expert?

9/23/2018 12:10:13 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

_dirt_ /Jesse....I have been one of the more active posters on this website for the past 7 years. Your nick is somewhat new to me. Read what I have written and what have you written. Which promotes the hobby better. I try to be positive towards all growers I meet. Personal attacks are not beneficial in my opinion..i still remember Amelio. Genetics..yes the Tobeck cross could hold the genetics. Try to tell Cindy that her seeds do not have genetic potential. Greg has a big challenge to try to get seeds during the cold October growing. I wish him success. I am calling your posts...negative to the hobby _dirt_ . I don't completely dislike you yet..but it can get there.

9/23/2018 12:25:15 PM

You don't need to be a genetics expert to know that a softball sized AG is NOT WORTH REPRODUCING!
#JackOLanternGenes

9/23/2018 12:26:08 PM

I'm definitely too inexperienced to have a valid opinion on most subjects though, so I'll just stick to the diary thing & stay out of the message boards

9/23/2018 12:32:57 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I need help, I am not good at BP searches...someone that is reading this....what was the Colorado or maybe Utah state record that was grown from a late set on a side vine of maybe 50 pounds. That was a thread a few? years ago, about the largest pumpkin ever grown from the smallest pumpkin. If my memory hold true..Andy Wolf had one, but the state record one is one i watched. Looks like it went for a few generations before the progeny disappeared. Genetics is independent from environment. Yes..a 10 day old softball pumpkin can hold genetic potential.

You are new _dirt_ , there is much you have left to learn. 1st year, 2nd year growers can be helped to reach to their potential.

9/23/2018 12:52:35 PM

On a cliff in the desert

My 2002 X 1936 set is on the main vine. The one that aborted a few days ago was on a side vine. This cross has aborted on me several times this summer after 10 days for no apparent reason.

9/23/2018 1:17:28 PM

On a cliff in the desert

2002 x 1836

9/23/2018 1:17:59 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

greg, freezing is going to be your biggest problem. First freeze, you will loose all your leaves. I am not sure if you blanket the fruit...if you can still get mature seeds with no leaves. All you can do is try to protect the plant the best you can and keep it going as long as you can. You might have to redesign your junk greenhouse. You have incentive...Brandon says if you can get viable seeds..he will put them thru the Glenomkins obstacle course. My best this year..smallest ancestor that I know of...184 pounds. Good Luck.

9/23/2018 1:29:41 PM

On a cliff in the desert

I've got a few sheets of plastic I think I can cover the entire plant/fruit with and weight down with bricks to keep the plant warm. I will be sending Brandon the 1836 X 2002 seeds for sure. I will be growing this cross for sure next spring.

9/23/2018 3:40:41 PM