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South Bloomfield, Ohio

Planning next year's amendments and need nitrogen of course, but dont' want to overdo it. I like the hormonal benefits of both. Also, what is the ideal amount of nitrogen at planting time in pounds per acre?

12/6/2007 10:41:14 PM

Somers, CT

Nitrogen leaches pretty fast so the soil tests do not really do much good. Don's HTGIII states that he has never seen a plant hurting for nitrogen after a good load of fresh manuer is dropped in the spring. I use 4-5 yards for 2 plants but are looking to add more next year. I increased the patch size and will spread them farther away this year and never had any problems growing vines.

12/7/2007 7:48:27 AM

President - GPC

But we hear...."three year old composted" but yet "fresh" manure. I thought we didnt want the fresh stuff? I heard both ways....?

12/7/2007 8:27:44 AM

southwest MO

I hate just blanket responses for recomendations as every bodys patch is different, but a default of 25lbs. per 1,000 sq.ft is typical... At these levels you should still get some hormonal advantages, but really wont jack with your #'s much because its all slow break down stuff.

12/7/2007 9:45:50 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

gpd, down here in KY. alfalfa pellets are cow food and high sodium content...read the label...Peace, Wayne

12/7/2007 7:09:32 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Wayne,

Planning the use of sodium-free alfalfa pellets per Dan Bowles' recommendation. I've decided against the use of manure; I'm tired of fighting the thistle. I also have plenty of maple leaves for the OM.

Still doesn't answer my question as to the analysis of both. I can find out, but just decided to use the lazy man's approach. I expect that, by next spring, the N analysis will be around 40 pounds/acre.

12/7/2007 7:56:10 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

I tried unsuccessfully to find an analysis for alfalfa pellets. However, searches led me to a growth hormone in 100% sun-dried alfalfa in pellet form called triacontanol. Very interesting reading.

Also, the analysis of kelp meal is 1-0-2. Not a very cost-effective way to add nitrogen, but a good source of growth hormones as well.

Looks like calcium nitrate in combination with alfalfa pellets and kelp meal might be the way to go?

12/7/2007 8:38:25 PM

Joe an excepted analysis of alfafa meal is 3-1-2,this varies with the actual content of the crop that is ground and used, same with the pellets I would guess, but this gives something to work with.
The calcium nitrate is a good early season kicker(moderation advised), blood meal adds organic N (16%) that will work for you when the soil warms and it breaks down. You're doing your research,,check the other "meals" and you will come up with a plan.
Don't disregard the manure, try composting it first to help with that weed problem.

12/7/2007 9:57:58 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Thanks for the input Dan. I've found from some of the other local growers that the manure becomes less important as the Bio Grow use increases and other forms of slow break-down OM is available. As long as the OM source is there, I'm happy.

I'm thinking 180 pounds of N per acre by planting time. The blood meal option sounds very interesting. Do you have a local source?

My only concern at this point is the amount of mitrogen at planting time. Since nitrogen leaches quickly, I don't intend to add any more after planting except in maintenance form from Agro-K products and very moderate use of Urea-Mate(5-10-27) after fruit-set.

Your input is very much appreciated Dan. Any further input is very welcome.

12/7/2007 11:29:53 PM

Sheridan . NY

5 gal low salt pellets to the 15 foot circle--

12/8/2007 9:40:39 AM

maine USA

Is there a lot of salt in some of the pellets Wayne? I had not realized that the pellets contained salt until someone mentioned it on here this past fall. thanks Kathy

12/8/2007 10:37:16 AM

southwest MO

Ask at your feed mill for meal. Sometimes they will bag it up for you. That way no extras just alfalfa. The pellets they sell here are meal and a very small % "Plant protien and roughage products" they use for a binder so it will stay together in a pellet. No salt added at all. They get wet and turn to meal real fast.

12/8/2007 11:51:27 PM

Sheridan . NY

also ask the mill if there in bulk to call there supplyer to ask on the amount of salt in the pellets --our mill pellets are 0 %

12/9/2007 8:31:08 AM

President - GPC

Check your local rose expert. We have a rose society here that they bag their own alfalfa meal, a 4th cutting, great stuff. They make up their own organic ferts for roses with alfalfa, kelp meal, bone meal, and some other organic stuff, really great stuff, but their 25 lbs bags of alfalfa meal nice, no salt. Check it out

alfalfa meal continues to do the same job as it has for decades - breaking down when in contact with soil organisms and triggering the release of soil nutrients. A 1980 report by eastern laboratories concluded that triacontanol is what makes it work. Triacontanol is a naturally occurring straight chain alcohol present in the leaves of many plants, particularly late-year cuttings of alfalfa which are very high in protein. Although alfalfa meal is not a substitute for fertilizer or plant food, when used with Mile-Hi Rose Feed it will produce amazing results. How much alfalfa meal is enough? In conjunction with using Mile-Hi Rose Feed, about 1 cup twice during the growing season (one cup with the first feeding and one cup with the third feeding). In construction of a new bed add about 40 pounds per 100 square feet of rose bed. You will enjoy healthier foliage, better stems, more basal breaks and greater overall plant vigor.

12/11/2007 9:24:01 AM

President - GPC

http://www.milehirosefeed.com/alfalfameal.htm

Here is their site.....

12/11/2007 9:24:48 AM

maine USA

I have found that Fedco seeds in Waterville Maine sells bags of alfalfa meal. In the past I had not purchased it from them because it was more expensive. This year I will buy the meal. It is very frustrating to think that all along I was adding a small amount of salt to my compost tea.
thanks guys KathyT

12/11/2007 3:54:41 PM