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Danville, CA (petman2@yahoo.com)

Having clay soil, I think part of my issue is root depth. The tractor can only till about 8 inches down at most and then is pretty hard clay. This year I was thinking of having my friend with the backhoe stop by and essentially double dig the entire patch down to about 2-3 feet. Once that was done, I would have the Kubota come with the tiller. I just picked up 15 yards of manure as well and thought I would have him "mix it in" as he goes. Anyone see issues with this plan or modifications? What else should I add to the muck pile as it gets worked to avoid compaction?

Thanks

10/29/2007 2:20:24 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Hi Petman. I had to do just what you described. I took out what I could and then added manure and lots of organic material, leaves, peat moss, seaweed. Once my soil tests come back I will work on getting the soil amended to correct levels. Good luck.

10/29/2007 2:37:34 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Just be careful that you don't end up making a "bowl" of material down into the clay that won't drain out. You could end up making a soup hole if excess water can't get away. You might need a ditch or a tile to drain it out. Otherwise, it sounds like a good idea.

10/29/2007 4:28:40 PM

Cduross1@rochester.rr.com

This is my first time doing this too, and I added leaf compost, screened top soil, cow manuer,horse manuer and grass clippings into the pit and covered it with more top soil. I would give it a stir with a pitch as you add the goodies in. I hope it works. Sounds great!

10/29/2007 6:07:48 PM

Cduross1@rochester.rr.com

Oh forgot to add I have clay (maybe not as much as what you have, and tons and tons of rocks.

10/29/2007 6:08:17 PM

Midwest

Hi Petman: I think roots won't grow down more than 8-12in. I believe that the soil needs to have a level of oxygen for root growth. There's a depth that oxygen cannot penetrate and then it's all anerobic conditions. I'm giving only my opinion here. Digging up that clay is not going to help. It's going to make your texture clumpy and the roots will run into it and turn to the right or left. If you do dig up the clay, make sure you pulverize it so the roots can go through it. It's not good if you make the first 6-8in clumpy. Leave the clay deep and mix in you manure to 8in. You're taking a risk by diggin up deep clay in IMHO.
Greg

10/30/2007 10:48:18 AM

Kuna, Id.

Bad clay here, did just what your thinking. I would never do it again. Greg hit on some issues I ran into, the biggest one was after digging up the clay I also dug up all the salts that had leached down to it. The salts in my patch more then doubled. Ended up keeping the patch flooded to flush them back down where they came from.
Good Luck.
Ken

10/31/2007 11:12:22 AM

Nova Scotia Canada

Rufus, New Minas ,Nova Scotia I had problems with clay soil and found that pour drainage and green manure can and will give you problems. I was told only add organic that was broken down or to make my own compost and to mix in soil.Lime or gypsum because powderd lime will brake down the clay and give better drainage and get oxygen to the roots.So I add 4 to 5 yards of mushroom compost every spring and fall plus lime and gypsum . Hope this helps you with your problem.

11/1/2007 6:53:13 PM

Sheridan . NY

cant you borrow a single gang sub soiler our will go down 3 feet----

11/2/2007 8:59:12 AM

Danville, CA (petman2@yahoo.com)

Craig - What difference is there in double digging versus subsoiler? Also, I don't have a tractor myself so .....

11/3/2007 12:35:28 AM

Minnesota

I did just what you said. I have room for two plants, one I dug a 3 x 4 foot hole to get the clay out the other I'm going to try and build up, add dirt, make it higher without digging a hole. I have heard more good things about digging a hole than bad, some personel best but also someone said you will make it into a bowl and if it rains it will drown your roots.

11/3/2007 11:13:11 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Petman,

If I get a chance, I'll post or send a picture of my subsoiler. Hmmm... now that the sun is going down earlier, that may be difficult.

11/5/2007 6:20:17 PM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

Eric, i thought about doing something like that, and to avoid the issues they are talking about, get a post hole digger (gas power)and drill some holes for drainage

11/8/2007 9:47:48 PM

Danville, CA (petman2@yahoo.com)

So a subsoiler is essentially a plow that goes down 3 feet deep or so...right?

It is considered better than my proposed digging because it disrupts and breaks up the lower levels but does not bring them up to the top? So hopefully roots can penetrate better but the topsoil stays on top. About right? I will call my tractor guy and see if he has one and can use it before he tills.

I assume I should use the subsoiler and then follow up with a till after wards? Or do I let it sit all winter in that condition? In case he doesn't know how to really use it, do you just go back and forth close together?

Thanks

11/9/2007 2:23:24 AM

Ohio

Petman i had the local farmer come into my patch yesterday. He had his chisel plow which is about the same has the single sub soiler. it just has i think 8 on it.he sit for 24 inches. iam going to leave it sit over the winter then till in the spring. it didnt bring any clay up it just broke up the hard pan underneath. now before he did this i did add everthing i wanted to the patch. let me tell you it looks really good.

11/9/2007 12:08:47 PM

Woodinville, WA, PNW zn 7b

If I had clay I'd use drain tile or lay a french drain down the middle of the bed.

Deep digging is a lot of work. Let nature do it for you. The prairie plants have roots that go down 20 feet, even into clay. Sheet composting on the surface, layer after layer, year after year will not only keep your weeds down, but will enlist the power of the soil critters to churn your bed for you. It takes two years, and the third year your bed will explode with lush growth, without any tilling.

11/12/2007 7:45:14 PM