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Location

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Michigan

I planted 3 healthy seedlings in my patch, and gradually, each of them has curled, warped, and produced stunted curled and warped leaves! The results from my soil test did not have suggestions other than no high Phosphorus ferts. It said Phosphorus was too high, but I didn't think too much of it as I though that was needed to encourage root developement. Is that what is killing my plants? They are on the same watering schedule as my wild plant at the pond, and it is thriving! Here are my results:

pH 6.9
Nitrate-N 735
Phosphorus 181
Potassium 633
Calcium 1347
Magnesium 267
Sulfur 153
Sodium 221
OM 4.34

This is a new patch that I have been adding to since Sept. I have used nothing that was not organic (with the exception of Imidacloprid a few weeks ago). Any insight would be fabulous!!

~Jessica

4/20/2006 9:54:31 PM

Phoenix, AZ

We be needing pics. Also, foliar tests are truly the only way to find where you are at. Unfortunately, you have small plants and they make it hard to get enough for a foliar.

4/20/2006 10:00:28 PM

Meadville, PA

you say that you have been adding to, what have you been adding? any residual herbicides in what you have been adding?

4/20/2006 10:48:08 PM

Michigan

Shouldn't be any residual herbicides, but nothing is for sure I guess. Here is the run down:
several loads of manure, many chopped leaves, limestone, coffee grounds, a bit of dried blood, and all has been sprayed with molasses a couple of times. We also dug holes a few feet deep at each planting site and filled with pumpkins from last season, compost, manure, alfalfa, leaves, and coffee grounds. Entire patch covered in a layer of alfalfa (This was all complete in Dec) Then late winter early spring, added Additional coffee grounds, Texas Greensand, a trailer load of old horse manure, 120 lbs of gypsum, and sprayed with liquid kelp. I was afraid that maybe the pits had not fully composted and were burning the plants as they were getting worse every day. So I moved them to a diff area of the patch about a week ago. They survived the move and are beginning to make new deformed leaves!! AHH!

4/20/2006 11:29:35 PM

Michigan

I should mention that I also used mycorrhizae during germination as well as during planting. Only fert has been fish and seaweed once at planting and weekly after that
Watering as needed, sometimes daily as temps have been in 90's and 100's with high winds for the last week.

4/20/2006 11:43:27 PM

Mocksville, NC

your sodium seems to be high how big is your patch? if all plants fail reapply gypsum! id have to know how big a patch
to tell ya how much gypsum till it in, and water the heck out of it this will leach out the salts, also with high temps might be half your problem shade them. and dont fret you still have plenty of time to re plant dig new holes for new plants dont use old pumpkins may contian a unknown
fungus use aged compost in your holes. To much salt will be toxic to plants.

4/21/2006 7:44:38 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Weekly applications fo fish & seaweed at what rates & what time of day? Combined with full sun, salts & high temperatures we might have the culprit.

4/21/2006 8:37:49 AM

Midwest

Jessica: Let me say, you've really ammended! Are your leaves curling at the tip and/or scrunching up? turning brown/black and some deformed? How long is the vine? Here's a pic of my plant last year... look familiar?

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=37843
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=36862

4/21/2006 2:04:56 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Is the pumpkin by the pond in a shaded area?

4/21/2006 3:22:40 PM

Michigan

Well, looks like mystery has been solved. While chatting with another grower about my problem last night, I was really wracking my brain to see where I went wrong. I went out to garage to double check application rates on fish and seaweed and happened to see a bottle of weed killer with 2-4-D as an active ingredient! It seems that hubby sprayed our backyard the night before my little darlings went in the ground. Patch is less than 100 feet away from area that was sprayed. If that didn't dash my hopes, neighbor sprayed surrounding area this morning. When I stopped him to ask what it was, he said 2-4-D! I have started new seeds, but will I run into the same problem? Is there a time period that is safe to plant after exposure to this stuff??? I did rain lightly for about 45 minutes after neighbor sprayed this morning.

~Jessica

4/21/2006 4:09:45 PM

Mocksville, NC

are the plants dead they may recover

4/21/2006 5:58:10 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

2-4-D will ruin many a growers seasons.

4/21/2006 7:15:46 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

If it was 2-4-D,.....start new ones..

4/21/2006 7:22:39 PM

Michigan

Plants are not dead yet, but will be soon. Have started others in the hopes that my neighbor is done spraying. He mentioned that he sprayed one of his fields with an herbicide that prevents weeds from emerging for 3 months! I forget the name, but I sure hope that is not what is affecting my patch!!!!!!!!!

4/21/2006 9:39:10 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Start new seeds right now. Tell ALL of the wannabe Lawn Care pros to cool their jets for the rest of the spring/summer. Most lawn broadleaf weeds are better controlled in October which is conveniently AFTER the competitive growing season is finished.

4/21/2006 10:39:12 PM

Mocksville, NC

kick your neighbor in the ass ,he should have informed his
nieghbors what he was going to do. Im sorry to here that but the good news you still have time to replant i dont know what inpact this will have on the new ones.

4/22/2006 12:22:40 PM

Long Island,New York

Tremor...What legal recourse does one have when neglegence (spray drift) affects the pumpkin grower in that manner? Surely you've come across similar situations through work...whats the buzz?

4/23/2006 9:04:50 AM

Piqua,Ohio

well lets be sure that the culprit is the chemical sprayed next door. My patch is less then four feet from the field that is sprayed every year for corn or soybeans I have never had any problems. for the spray drift from over 100 feet away to actually kill anything is hard to believe although you may see some symptoms. unless someone was really negelgite and had no idea what they were doing. sometimes we are always looking to accuse someone else instead of looking at what is going on in the patch. 2 4 d has specific symptoms on plants a twisting and drawstring affect on the leaves. a chemical that is applied for residual control is usually a shoot killer or some other form of germinating killer. not likely to kill anything that far off that is green and growing from a drift even if that was the case. now if you have dicamba in the mix maybe but still hard for me to believe it will kill. yes maybe show damage but to actually kill the plants is unlikely. heck sometimes it doesn't even work on what we spray it directly on.not saying it is not possible but the drift would have to be very bad and the wind carryig it toward the patch. or a temperature inversion was going on. I would look more toward the stuff such as old pumkins in the hole who knows what disease they had with them if you bruried them before composting they are probally a goooy mess in there now . also no one mentioned that pumpkins do not tranplant well they do not like the roots disturbed they also will not do well in 100 degree heat there are many factors to look at we need pictures!!

4/23/2006 10:28:19 PM

Midwest

You could try to protect your plants until the neighbor is done spraying. Maybe a row cover?

4/23/2006 10:41:17 PM

Long Island,New York

Ok. This happens every year to somebody. If you spray something that kills my plant on my property you are responsible. What have you seen Steve?

4/23/2006 10:53:19 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Last fall as testers I planted some pumpkins. I had sprayed 2-4D 3 weeks earlier. My pumpkins that came up had damage to their first real leaves.

Depending upon the type you use, it can linger a while.

4/24/2006 12:35:46 AM

Sparta, NC

The applicator is responsible for control of the product being applied. He should be reported to the state agricultural pesticide board.

4/24/2006 7:43:16 AM

well Jessica, seems you can "callin" that neighbor,,but I hate to think what the punishment for the hubby will be,,lol

Glad you found the most obvious problem and can make corrections and still get some new plants going,,good luck !!!

4/24/2006 9:55:54 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

2,4-d ESTER forms can gas off (volatilize) in warm tempertaures & the gas will take out young tender plants of many type. The AMINE formulations do not gas off but are still prone to drift especially when a fine higher pressure spray is used under windy conditions.

A couple years ago I had a neighbor treat his lawn with a granular weed & feed that drifted onto an 805 Pukos & took it out. It was too late in the year to replant it.

At least Jessica still has time to start a new plant.

You DID start another seed Jessica?

4/24/2006 11:28:47 AM

Michigan

Good description Sam, drawstring effect on the leaves. That certainly explains the warping that I was tryng to describe. Glimmer of hope today though! Looks like the 950.4 Boyton and the 1011 Beachy are trying to pull out of it! I'll post some pics today in my diary. I did start new seeds, they are not in the patch as of yet. Wondering which would be more prudent. Continue to grow my original plant if they pull through? Or plan to go with the new ones? Would the injury to the original plants prevent it from reaching it's potential? I am certainly worried about our increasing heat for the new plants. Ben, did your tester plants begin making healthy leaves at some point?

Thank you everybody!

~Jessica

4/24/2006 3:41:36 PM

Michigan

on a humerous note, my neighbor did plant one of the test germination seedlings that I could not bear to kill (it has several warped leaves, but now is making healthy leaves). Against my advise, he planted it in his veggie garden. LOL!

4/24/2006 4:21:43 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Jessica,

Yes, after the first 2 leaves got that "drawstring" effect, they pulled out and started growing as they should. No aftereffects as I could tell.

Ben

4/24/2006 8:17:26 PM

Midwest

Jessica: I would think the ones in the ground are going to come back especially now that you see a difference in the leaves. They're survivors!

4/25/2006 1:31:23 PM