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Cincinnati, OH

It's my daughter and my first year at the giant pumpkin game and we are trying to do it right. We have three pumpkins on right now with the biggest estimated at almost 30lbs using the over the top measuring method. The pumpkins are now sitting on dirt but I see a lot of pictures in the diaries with material under the pumpkins. Is this something I should be doing to prevent rot? If so, any suggestions on material? Any help would be appreciated. If you want to see our diary feel free to take a look. http://www.fishernetworks.com/GiantPumpkin

Thanks,

Fish

7/10/2005 10:21:55 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I'd suggest you to use clean (play) sand under the fruit.
Sand is very easy to apply and will do a great job as far as drainage is concerned.
You will need a helping hand to lift your 30 lbs fruit of the ground a bit while you put some sand under it. You might want to use about a 5 gal bucket of sand for the start and apply more of it around the fruit as it grows.
If you have problems with vermin, especially those living in the ground, you might use some fine wire netting under the sand or use other materials like mill wire fabric instead of the sand.

7/11/2005 3:40:16 AM

Brillion Wisconsin

A big piece of styrofoam works pretty well. I know a few growers who use pulp mill screening/felt. If you know anybody who works in a paper mill ask them about it.

7/11/2005 8:40:12 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I've been thinking about this too since my pumpkin is getting to the stage where I'll need something bigger to put under it than the small sheets of styrafoam that I have now.

My idea is to use a cheap pool toy, like an inner tube, to place around the pumpkin to support the vine and keep the fruit round for as long as possible.

I've also been thinking that some sort of air mattress underneath the fruit as it grows may help lift it off the ground when it's time to harvest. It could also cushion the fruit as it grows.

Does anybody use any of these methods? Do you think they'd work?

7/11/2005 9:32:22 AM

Western NY

i use that pink sytrofoam that's fairly sturdy.

i've thought about something inflatible, but you woud want it rated to hold a lot of weight. i'd hate to have it pop and drop the fruit, even a couple inches.

7/11/2005 9:57:23 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

The thing with a plastic air toy would be air circulation and water drainage. Paper mill screen and sand seem to be the best. Styrofoam here equals large mouse nest under pumpkin.

7/11/2005 10:40:38 AM

Cologne / Germany

A pallet with some styrofoam on top. If it´s to high for the vine, dig it in. No critters, no moisture, no cold temps from the soil surface. Very easy to move away from the patch with a hand pallet truck or similar later. No danger of scratching or dropping a fruit.
Did it last year and worked great. From patch to weigh-off without even touching the fruit.

7/11/2005 10:55:04 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I can see the problem with an air matress under the pumpkin. But, a ring would allow the bottom of the pumpkin to sit on the sand or styrafoam to keep it from dropping. The ring would really only be used to support the sides of the pumpkin as it grows (and to make it easier to get under it for lifting). The bottom would still probably flatten out. But, maybe not as much as if the fruit spends it's whole life on a rigid flat surface.

7/11/2005 12:50:18 PM

Montoursville, PA

One of the least expensive synthetic blocks between the sand and the pumpkin is a simple synthetic feed bag cut open. Whatever is used it should be able, to pass air and water, to the sand.

7/11/2005 2:51:33 PM

Nipomo, California

I have very sandy soil and have never put anything under my pumpkins and the only thing thats ever been under mine has been sowbugs that didnt do anything. I always think I should put something down though.

7/11/2005 3:20:43 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I use used corigated plastic signs, like real estate or election signs. Seems to work well!

7/11/2005 3:29:22 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

This might be a bit off topic to the original question. But, I don't have vehicular access to my backyard. In other words, I can't back a truck or trailer up to the patch, lift the pumpkin and be ready to take it to the weigh-off.

So, I am trying to figure out the best way to grow my pumpkin to facilitate moving it about 60 feet from the patch, through a gate, and another 30 feet or so to the car or trailer. I think I'll be able to fit it in the minivan (has anybody transported a giant in a Windstar before?).

It seems a bit early for me to be presuming that I'll have such a big pumpkin that it'll be dificult to move. But, I'm trying to plan ahead for that improbability. And, it'll be easier to deal with it now than it will be when the fruit is 100 pounds or more.

7/11/2005 3:42:47 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I like Dwaine's poly woven bag on sand idea. Soulds a bit like Pulp Mill Fabric. This allows drainage & better mobility. Hmmm....

7/11/2005 7:51:29 PM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

crammed

sounds like floh's idea would be best for you, and maybe me as well, I have to get through two fences, with only 3' gates, if I grow anything good sized, im gunna be modifying for sure, then rent a pallet jack and lay some plywood down and pull her on out

7/12/2005 8:05:05 PM

Southern Sweden

Fish, take a look at: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=29966

7/13/2005 4:01:14 AM

Cologne / Germany

Transport of my 2004 pumpkin (680 lbs) grown on a pallet:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28738

7/13/2005 5:02:26 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

How wide is a standard pallet and how wide is a hand pallet truck?

I think that my gate is 33 inches wide. So, I'd better not grow anything bigger than that. The space between houses may be slightly wider.

If money were no object, a crane would probably be perfect. But, it looks like floh's method will be the way to go for me. Now I just have to figure out how to get it to the zoo for the elephants :-)

7/13/2005 9:09:36 AM

Cologne / Germany

I have no idea if this is international standard, however the "euro pallet" over here is 47 inches wide x 31 inches long x 6 inches high. Standard pallet weight is 55 lbs, so they didn´t need to remove the pumpkin at the weigh-off. But it all depends on the pumpkin which might overgrow the dimensions of the pallet sometimes.
The biggest advantage is you will always find someone being able to move a standard pallet & pumpkin with a forklifter or pallet jack wherever you go. That´s how we got that pumpkin into a TV studio and the zoo without any problems :-)

7/13/2005 11:29:00 AM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

to the best of my knowledge, the US doesnt have a "standard" pallet, what would prevent someone from putting lead into the pallet, or some other stuff? If I were an official at a weigh off, dont think I would allow anything but the pumpkin in the scale

7/14/2005 8:09:47 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I did a bit of research and it looks as if there are pallet standards of sorts in Canada (and probably the US). But, they appear to be self-regulated by the industries in which they are used. I didn't find any evidence of laws pertaining to pallets used domestically. Although, there may be rules for pallets shipped overseas. But, I am not sure that there is a single standard like it sounds like there is in Europe.

7/14/2005 11:58:30 PM

Cologne / Germany

If a shipper will send a truck with refrigerators on pallets to Italy coming back with televisions on pallets, the exchange of pallets is always 1 for 1 (like a bottle with refundable deposit) and the weight of the freight including the pallet is fixed so nothing has to be unloaded before needed.
I´m not in the transportation business but I think this a big advantage of using these standard pallets.

7/15/2005 8:42:49 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

Unfortunately, the standards that seems to be used here are either 40 or 48 inches wide. So, that's no good for me with a 33 inch wide gate.

Maybe I can find a euro pallet here. There must be Canadian companies that ship to Europe on those pallets. Or, maybe I can just cut a wooden pallet to size.

7/15/2005 9:03:09 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Good luck getting that pumpkin threw a 33 inch gate.

7/15/2005 11:09:52 AM

Western NY

make your own pallet. not too hard, you're just making a frame to hold the pumpkin on. that way you can cut it to the right lenght. if you have a long wide fruit you're screwed if it gets really big, though.

7/15/2005 11:13:54 AM

Liberal Kansas, USA

What about using mesh laundry bag or similar and partially filling it with styrafoam packing peanuts?

7/15/2005 2:01:36 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

Well, I have slightly good news. It would appear that my initial measurement was flawed, or I wrote down the wrong number. My gate is actually about 38-1/4" wide. Still not quite 40" or 48". But, better than 33".

I think that the weigh-offs may stipulate that the pumpkin must be on a standard pallet, don't they? But, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Once I get it through the gate, I guess I can put the narrower pallet on top of the standard one.

But, here's the hard part that I didn't mention. There is a slope up to the gate. I hope that doesn't pose too much difficulty. Obviously I don't want a several hundred pound pumpkin rolling down the hill.

I like the packing peanuts idea. You could even use the biodegradable ones and just till them into the patch at the end of the season.

7/15/2005 6:13:02 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I just had another crazy/brilliant idea.

What if you grew a pumpkin in a deflated inflatable pool? Then, when the pumpkin is at full size, you would inflate the pool and fill it with water. Assuming your fruit doesn't have any holes, it should float, shouldn't it? I would think that would make putting a pallet or tarp underneath it a lot easier. Then you could just let the water out to lower it onto the pallet.

Obviously it would displace an amount of water equal to its mass. But, 1500 pounds of water doesn't sound like that much to me. I might be wrong, but I think that's about 180 gallons. That's only three or four barrels full.

7/21/2005 3:04:23 AM

Indiana

take down the fence......could only be 8 screws to have an 8 ft wide gap

Tom

7/21/2005 9:00:06 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I'm past the fence problem. I'm now pretty sure that I can get a standard 40 inch wide pallet out of the gate or on the other side of the house. Besides, the fence is more than 20 years old. I'm pretty sure it's put together with nails.

But, do you think that the pool idea would work? It would be a cheap way to get a pumpkin lifter. I saw a Barbie pool online for only $20 :-)

7/21/2005 9:15:50 AM

Cologne / Germany

I don´t think the amount of water in that pool would be enough to let a 300lbs pumpkin swim on top. Also the walls of the pool are flexible and won´t resist the pressure. Finally you won´t get much more than a flooded patch and much problems (after flooding) to move your fruit out from there.
If you like to try it, please don´t forget to take some pictures and post them in your diary :-)

7/21/2005 7:10:01 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

See Don's books for picture of pumpkin regatta boats. There is no way an AG will float in a kiddy pool. But one lifter per 80-100 lbs is reasonable. Think Pizza & Beer & lot's of friends, neighbors & family depending on how the season goes.

7/21/2005 9:25:58 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

You're probably all right. But, in theory, how much water would you need to float a, for example, 600 pound pumpkin? Let's assume for the moment that the container is able to withstand all the pressure.

I probably won't be trying this. But, I still think it is feasible.

7/21/2005 10:32:58 PM

Cologne / Germany

Ok, let´s try to grab some knowledge from school LOL
In metric values, 1 liter of water has a weight of 1 kg (0.26 gal is 2.2 lbs).
The water displacement of a swimming object is exactly the same related to its own weight. A 600 lbs pumpkin has a water displacement of 600 lbs of water or 71 gallons.
So you need a container slightly bigger than your pumpkin filled up with water and a remaining space for 71 gallons of water displacement by the time you move the pumpkin in.
In theory, at that point, it should swim...

7/22/2005 6:10:49 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

OK, that's what I thought. It's Archimedes' principle I think. But, how high would the pool need to be to lift the pumpkin, for example, six inches? Let's assume that I am using the Barbie pool that I mentioned (which is actually $13, not $20): http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443248064 , which dimensions of 47 x 12" (120 x 30.5 cm).

So, if the volume of a cylinder is Pi multiplied by the squared radius all multiplied by the height, that should mean that (60cmx60cmx3.14)x30.5=344,772 cubic centimeters=344.772 litres=344.772 kilograms or about 760 pounds of water.

These are the calculations I made before posting the idea. That's why it sounded to me like it could work. But, I could be way off in my figuring.

Where is "scienceteacher" when you need him/her?!!!

7/22/2005 8:13:50 AM

Eugene, OR

Hey, now you're speaking my language. floh is correct. In order for an object to float, it must weigh less than the water it displaces. The density of water varies with temperature but is relatively constant(above freezing) up to around 70 degrees F, with a value of 62.4 lbf/ft^3.

(62.4 lbf/ft^3)*(ft^3/7.48 gal)= 8.34 lbf/gal meaning 1 gallon of water at 70 degrees F weighs 8.34 pounds-force

So, to make your 600 pounder float, you'll need:
(1 gal/8.34 lbf)*(600 lbf)= 71.9 gallons of water

This doesn't mean much because the level at which it will sit in the water is completely dependant on its shape and mass distribution. In order to find out exactly how low it will sit in the water besides just floating it, you'd need to graphically represent its shape with a complex differential equation and use an integral to find the volume at any point along the curve. We ain't gonna do that! For the sake of argument, lets assume the pumpkin is a perfect sphere. The volume of a sphere is 4/3*pi*r^3. Using the 2005 weight estimation charts we can get an approximate radius to use for the calculation. According to the 2005 chart, a pumpkin with a circumference of 135" will weigh approximately 597 pounds.

7/22/2005 1:04:05 PM

Eugene, OR

circumference=2*pi*r
135 in= 2*3.14159*r Solving for r yields a radius of 21.49 in. Now we an find the total volume of water the pumpkin *could* displace.

total volume= (4/3)*(3.14159)*(21.49^3 in^3)(1 ft^3/12^3 in^3)= 24.06 ft^3 Clearly we have more than enough volume available to displace the weight of the pumpkin so it will float. But how low will it sit in the water? Again, we could use calculus here but why would any sane person what to do that? If the sphere sat half way down in the water, it would be displacing about 12 ft^3, or approximately 750 pounds of water. From this observation, the pumpkin will be less than half way in the water when neutrally buoyant. Completely unstable, but less than half way in the water nonetheless.

So, to ensure you had enough depth to "float" your pumpkin, a depth of 2 feet would give you a little margin for error. One thing to consider, the above calcuations are based on a sphere, not a pumpkin. Pumpkins have all sorts of crazy shapes that would make it difficult to figure exactly how low it will sit in the water but the sphere approximation at least gives you an idea of what depth is required.

7/22/2005 1:04:24 PM

Eugene, OR

Hope that makes sense? LOL Best of luck with your experiment!

7/22/2005 1:05:29 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I didn't understand very much of it. But, you did all that work, it would be a shame for me not to try it on one of my "just for fun" pumpkins (which don't actually exist, but I pollinated one this morning).

Maybe I should email my physics teacher friend in New York. He makes a living explaining this stuff to eleven year olds. So, he should be able to help me :-)

7/22/2005 1:50:36 PM