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Eddyz@efirehose.net

I've read a lot of posts on how to warm the water, but what is the optimum temperature to water with.
I would like to hear any and all thoughts on this.

Eddy

11/14/2004 11:09:26 AM

Follansbee, Wv

I am also curious about this. When we filled our pool last year after changing the liner, the water temp was around 72ºF. Obviously way too cold for swimming, but I have to believe that rain water is at least that cool. Especially when you consider the altitude of the clouds, it's obviously cool enough to condense water. I guess the point of all this raving is that rain water isn't heated, and doesn't seem to be bad for plants in general, so why heat irrigation water? My theory is that once on/in the ground, the soil will warm the water quickly enough, since there is a larger surface area of the water exposed to the warming agent (the soil). Has this babbling confused you yet? Give me time. Also keep in mind that I'm just a newb and have never grown a pumpkin.

11/14/2004 11:27:00 AM

Ljubljana, Slovenia

the water should be at the ambient T... especially if you spray over the leaves. Jernej

11/14/2004 11:30:54 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I think that ambient air temperature, nightly low/daily high, percent sun vs. cloud cover, & soil color would all play into this to some extent. But it seems to me that the sooner soils get to the mid 70's (F) the better.

I'd say that 80-85F is reasonable until mid June around here. But I'd wager goals for Alberta would be quite different.

11/14/2004 11:41:06 AM

Indiana

I dont think water temp matters much. rain is like 70 degrees. Well water is 55 degrees. Figure 1 inch of water, over an hour period, and I bet it only drops your soil temperature a few degrees.

Tom

11/14/2004 11:45:18 AM

Western NY

i watered using pond water that was 70-76, depending on the weather.

11/14/2004 12:17:29 PM

ENGLAND

I cannot remember the exact year but Joel holland shows an irrigation water heating system in one of his Videos. It may have been 1994-96 but just not sure. The system comprised of Solar Pannells on the roof of his house with pipes leading to a large water tank on the Ground.

11/14/2004 12:26:36 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

My soil temp averages 63 degrees, so I would like to bring that up to at least 70 degrees. Anyway it was easy before I raised my OM the radius of heat from buried water lines reduced to only 1 inch around the pipe.
Organic matter is a good insulater before it starts to break down.
This is why I would like to water with warm water so I can blanket the whole area and bring up it's temp.
Tom, for me a few degrees means lots, from 63 to 61, and I'd bet the roots almost stop growing. but if I can get the temp to go from 63 to 65, and then the next time I water I can get another degree, it all helps.

Thanks for the replies

Eddy

11/14/2004 12:29:12 PM

Walkerton Ont

i pump water right from the saugeen river, right into my 50 gallon drums and then the water goes to my root system. It goes down slowly, so it might warm up a bit. I never seen my plants go in shock yet from cold water, lol

11/14/2004 1:12:09 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

If you use a drip system, I don't think it matters since it'll warm just fine by the soil. Of course, I don't think it matters much anyway unless it's *very* cold water...rain water can get chilly itself and that's a Mother Nature issue...can't argue with MN.

11/14/2004 3:07:29 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Up where Eddy is I get the feeling he's trying to extend the season by warming the soil early. Up here where soils freeze solid, roots are slow to explore in the spring. Worse is the time it takes for bacteria to wake up again. So nutrients aren't very available even if roots did feel like running.

11/14/2004 3:17:38 PM

Midway City, California

My theory is that by heating the water in the tank during the day when the temperature is higher and then releasing the water in the evening as the temperature goes down will keep the soil and air warmer for a longer time thus causing less stress on the plant. During the winter rain is colder because of the temperature of the air. In the summer rain is warmer because of the temperature of the air.

11/14/2004 3:29:56 PM

Itzetown City

In summer the rain in warmer? How´bout hail? LOL
In my opinion, to prevent stress the water for watering should have approximate the same temp as the air or the soil in the patch.

11/14/2004 4:21:11 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Steve, I guess you said what i meant, LOL. Iwould like to give everything a wake up call about the 10th of May.
i know this last summer was tough all over, I'd like to have a fighting chance. If I can keep the roots warm, it should compensate for the low air Temps

eddy

11/14/2004 4:30:50 PM

Indiana

Eddy,

Sorry bout my ignorance there in the first post. I typically try to avoid looking like a dumbass..... Your soil temp is probably way less than it is here. Didnt even think about that.

Alun Jones told me how he warms his soil in the spring...digs a 3 ft deep pit and fills it with 18 inches of fresh manure, and lets that heat his soil.... Maybe he can tell you more.

Tom

11/14/2004 6:03:24 PM

Lloydminster/AB

hmmmm... Thats a good question Eddy. Now what is the max temp of the water before some harm is done to our plants? The last few years we have had over 7ft of frost.When they dug some basements there was still frost at that level in the middle of June and thats got to keep the soil cool!

11/14/2004 7:22:58 PM

Abbotsford, B.C

Wasn't last winter the one where there was a stretch of days with lows of -40 C, and highs of -37 C? For all you people in the states, -40 C is the same as -40 F. No wonder the ground freezes so deep. Here in Alberta it is all important to heat the soil as much as you can. I had a soil heating mat buried 2 and a half feet below the ground, and not finishes compost right above that, and then the regular soil and manure and compost and other good soil mixes. I know that the plant that was situated on top of the soil heating mat grew much quicker than any of the plants that were not on top of the mat. And I didn't even have soil heating cables this year, they are a must in Alberta for almost the whole month of May, I would be thinking. There is a pronounced difference between plants with and without soil heating cables.

Cameron

11/14/2004 7:54:44 PM

Abbotsford, B.C

So yes, I definitely think that warm water should be used to water pumpkin plants in AB and other cold climates. It probably wouldn't hurt to do it in other climates too, especially in the spring, though.


Cameron

11/14/2004 7:56:17 PM

Taber, Alberta

That's very true, Cameron, about the soil heating cables. If you don't use them in this area, I think you are just wasting your time.
Eddy, are you talking about running warm water through pipes under the soil, or just watering with warm water? I put warm water (around 70 degrees) when the plant is small in May, or when it's really cool in June (which last year was almost every day). After the plant gets too big, I just give up, and usually the weather is nicer too. I think I'm a little luckier than you folks north of me. I usually have frost out of the ground by mid/late March at the latest, and some years the surface soil never really freezes.
Anyways, I'm wondering if warm water on the soil will bring the soil temp up for a long enough period of time to do any good? Just a thought.
Alan

11/14/2004 10:05:59 PM

Wichita, KS

I don't EVER want to know what -40C/F is. Reading about it is uncomfortable enough for me. This Native Californian can barely stand it when the temp drops to 40F! Although, surfing in 72F water must not be the same as swimming in 72F (MontyJ), because I can do that for hours. :)

I am planning to water from a holding tank next season, but not because I want to warm the well water (it warms up fine in the irrigation lines). I am doing it only for ease of adding ferts.

11/15/2004 12:20:21 AM

Montoursville, PA

Warm water contains more oxygen. When it cools it releases that oxygen to either the root zone or the atmosphere if done overhead or at the surface.

No significant heating can be done using amateur techniques over a large area.

The honey hole, hot frame or manure pit will raise the temperature above it a few degrees. Fresh manure must be used. Horse is one of the best. Danger lurks there too! You can overdo it so that your developing roots are burned if it is still cooking in warmer weather. I know of no written formulas. The old timers used the hot frame only to create lining out plants and maybe a little early lettuce which is shallow rooted. That having been done the honey pit had served it's purpose. It was not a large area technique.

My two cents would suggest that heating cables will do a prescribed factual thing. They would be more likely to raise the temperature a few degrees a whole lot safer and more cosistantly.

Manure in large honey hole or pit situations creates a signifigant amount of menthane while making it's heat. That is possibly a health and safety factor we should not mess with. One or two good whiffs and you my friend are in the bacteria food chain instantly and upon the final resting place. The key word here is "large". A wheelbarro load under a small frame is not of any concern.

11/26/2004 10:38:46 AM

Eugene, OR

It's been a long time since I've been in chemistry class but I don't think warm water holds more oxygen that cold. Water is much more dense at cooler temperatures, allowing for a higher oxygen content. Salinity and elevation can also affect the oxygen content of water.

I started this season with hopes of watering with warmed water from the water tower but the capacity just wasn't large enough. I ended up using it for fertilizing only and just watered straight from the tap, chlorine and all.

11/26/2004 12:56:59 PM

Halifax, Nova Scotia

I think Brian is right. I'm a chemical technologist although that isn't helping me much in responding to this, I can barely remember what school I went to, let alone what I learned. I'm thinking along the lines of fishing. Cool water holds more oxygen than warm, but regardless, a barrel of stale water won't be holding any oxygen at all. Some sort of agitation is required to promote more oxygenated water. That's why fish need aerators, that's why Rainbow trout like fast moving water.

11/26/2004 1:46:44 PM

Montoursville, PA

I slipped...surely when we boil water the escaping oxygen is in our faces. My points were that only insignificant changes can be brought about with amateur doctoring. We can temper the water to eliminate thermal stress upon application to shallow roots and above ground plant surfaces. This makes sense and is done by many growers.

The evaporative factor removes chlorine if it sits for half a day or longer. Some settlement may be collected in the bottom of the tanks if provision is made to do this. How much good this may create is perhaps arguementive.

I do not use city water on or in my patchs or other growing areas for two reasons. It is very costly. My well water is better because it is not treated with non-biodegradeable elements or chemistry. The shallow well has actually improved somewhat over the past thirty years except for the increasing acidic PH found in natural rainfall.

11/26/2004 10:24:20 PM

Ljubljana, Slovenia

I think that the microorganisms are the best soil heather. All they need is lots of food: organic matter and minerals. However they need a minimum T to start heating up, which can be set by the heating cables. One more thing, warming by water would leach the good stuff out of the soil unless you make a pipe system.

Docgipe I am sorry to disappoint you, but in my opinion the well water contains the “non-biodegradable elements or chemistry” as well because they are washed out of the polluted sky by rain. As individuals we can not be “bio” as far the humanity is not.

About oxygen: atoms and molecules move faster at higher T so gas molecules (like oxygen) escape from fluids (water) faster. Cold water thus contains more oxygen than warm.

11/27/2004 12:36:54 PM