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Ohio

I have been reading where alot of growers have been using molasses on there plants and using it as a drench aswel. I quit using it on my plants as they grow and heres why.

Larry Checkon told me this about Molasses, that molasses teams with bacteria of all kinds that may also have all sorts of fungus that are feeding on the molasses. So adding molasses to your vines to soil that has large amounts of compost (that isnt all the way broken down), that the molasses with the soil or compost could start breaking down your vines and roots as well.

What do you guys think?

Brooks

7/2/2007 10:30:48 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Disagree here Brooks for this reason: I keep a very strict fungus control regimen going here, applying Bravo and W&A Rezist weekly. Healthiest plants I've ever had. I also apply molasses weekly, but soil application through irrigation only. Molasses also teams with beneficial bacteria to help break that organic matter down.

However, I have the luxury of growing in full sunlight and well-drained soil. Molasses works for me.

7/2/2007 11:36:24 PM

Ohio

Joe, I agree Molasses teams with beneficial fungi and Im sure so does Larry, but what about the compost in the ground that isnt 100 % broken down and then you add Molasses,
Do you think this will hurt your roots or vines thats growing in this soil when molasses jump starts your soil again that starts to break down the compost in the soil that your roots and vines are growing in?

Brooks

7/3/2007 4:48:00 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Molasses ATTRACTS the microbes which break down compost. Again, a good fungicide program will prevent most harmful fungus. I've been using molasses for six years without harmful side effects and I also apply leaf compost annually. This compost is never fully broken down.

7/3/2007 6:17:25 AM

President - GPC

I use the Mol according to the Agro-K plan too and use the AA compost tea about 1 day after or before Why..... My thinking is the sugars will be there for the biology, and that hopefully the good biology that Im keeping going benefits and out duels the bad. So far I m doing OK with no problems, however I havent gotten even close to a world record like Larry so I just go back to my patch...........

7/3/2007 8:35:36 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Also have been using molasses for 6 years...Almost all the Organic growers use Molasses as a foliar to increase the Brix Level of the plants. Why would a living thing break down because of the increase in Microbes. If this was the case my barefeet are in trouble. A happy,healthy, and well balanced soil ecosystem is what we are after.

7/3/2007 1:32:02 PM

Ohio

Maybe you just been lucky so far?,LOL

7/3/2007 8:07:53 PM

Ohio

your right, Molasses attracts the microbes which break down the compost,so lets leave the fungus part out of this now. Lets talk about what happens when your vines are in compost that isnt 100 % broken down and its covering your green vine(Nitrogen) You dont think there is any possabily of that breaking down your vines or roots? I sure do.tell me why it wouldnt?

7/3/2007 8:13:01 PM

hmmm, so now this has lead from molasses to using manure ("unfinshed") compost for a mulch if I got this straight,,,

What did Larry tell you about that brooks?

I use the molasses as a kicker in my teas,,every tea app then contains molasses whether it be foliar or drench no problems to this point.....

7/3/2007 9:31:50 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Brooks: I'm burying vines for the first time this year. I have the healthiest plants ever.

7/3/2007 11:07:24 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Brooks, I follow your drift but anything you bury in your soil is going to break down overtime so the addition of molasses and all the other teas, soil soups, foliar feeding Agro-K and all that, I don't think will further any decay or breaking down of vines and roots resulting in Brooks losing a pumpkin.

If that were the case, it would be hard to grow anything in a good balanced soil with a good OM content.

My buddy Steve has foliar fed his plants for the past few years and had no problems, as a matter of fact PM has been much less for him and he says he notices the differance. I just use it as a drench and soil conditioner.

7/4/2007 1:14:39 AM

Ohio

here is what Im trying to say but just cant type it,lol. All Im saying or trying to say is this, you have soil that has compost init, you cover your vines with that soil with compost init and spray with molasses.

Now what happens to your compost pile when you spray molasses on it, it starts cooking right? Im not saying Im right here, just trying to understand.

But I do see what you guys are talking about now. Alot of growers use molasses with out one single problem. so it cant be as bad as I think it could be.


Brooks

7/4/2007 5:04:45 AM

Ohio

Unkadan, took me a while to find the email but this is what Larry told me about covering vines (mulch) with straight compost, I emailed him this problem when I lost my vines on my 1469.
Last year I sprayed with molasses, could this have helped the vines start to turn to compost and turn brown on the outside first, not exactly sure.

''Larry, Quote"
The thing about the compost is that it is teaming with bacteria of all kinds and may also have all sorts of fungus that are all feeding on the compost. When you put it on your vines, they get eaten as well. I do not believe in putting molasses on the plant either for the same reason but I do put it in the soil before the last till. Many will tell you they do this or that and have not had a problem but that does not mean they are right. They have just been lucky. Again, live and learn.'' Unquote

Brooks

7/4/2007 5:34:08 AM

Rhode Island

we are lucky our soil soup nutrient solution only has minor amounts of molasses
i tend to agree with larry. plus mollasses always brings the aphids in in droves.

7/4/2007 6:05:41 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

OK....Not everyone understood what Brook & Larry are concerned with.

We also don't have enough information from Larry to draw any conclusions. Larry is very smart & spends a lot of time speaking with educated plant people

Molasses doesn't attract or introduce bacteria to soil. It does cause whatever bacteria are already in the soil or compost to experience a short-term population explosion. Once the molasses is done being consumed, the surplus population starts to die. This isn't bad in the world of soil biology since other soil organisms benefit from feeding on the surplus bacteria. This is the "bio-diversity" that is so sought after in compost teas & soil.

None of this hurts plants since the bacteria that we are fostering with molasses is not interested in consuming LIVE plant tissue - just dead stuff.

I will disagree that molasses may contain pathogenic fungi. There is also very little evidence that any pathogenic fungi benefit from molasses. Pathogenic fungi live on LIVE plant material.

Here's the deal:

The fresher our compost is, the more we need to keep it out of direct contact with roots. We like to think that the heat generated in composting kills bad fungi. It doesn't. Heat is a byproduct which might kill weeds but if the temperature ever went high enough to kill pathogenic fungi it would also kill the beneficials.

continued

7/4/2007 8:39:57 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Properly composted organic material is only MOSTLY broken down. It takes a LOT of time to eventually reach the final stages of humic acid when nothing alive is leaf & nothing that once contained lignin, etc is left to identify. But along the way, good bacteria & fungi become the predominant living population in the compost. It isn't "100% done breaking down" but it is at the point we CAN safely use it in direct contact with our plants (or in a CT brewer). This is why HUMUS (a step after compost) is safer to use in a CT operation. Compost may still contain bad guys that will grow on in the brewer. Humus no longer has "bad guys".

So is molasses bad? NO

Is compost bad? It can be if it's not composted properly but generally it is very good for plants.

Are the two combined worse when placed in direct contact with our plants? Larry's observations would suggest that they are & I would have to agree that they can be. If we have unfinished compost in the rootzone or on top of vines, molasses could cause an unhealthy spike in biological activity that might weaken the plant which could then FOSTER a fungal infection. Remember - weakened plants are more prone to fungal infections.

Could there be some bacteria that become elevated & are NOT good for plants? Maybe. I don't know.

Take home points:

Molasses in soil or compost causes bacterial spikes.
Molasses attracts some insects.
Applied as a foliar - Molasses raises brix which is fodder for a different thread.
Molasses doesn't *contain* fungi or bacteria unless introduced.
Unfinished compost is BAD to use on our plants under many circumstances & molasses might make a bad situation worse.

7/4/2007 8:40:19 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

We know that if compost contain bad organisms & it is polaced in a compost tea brewer - the bad organisms grow right along side the good ones. There are some recently published papers that can be linked here if folks want to see them. The Feds were looking at E-Coli & not pathogens but conventional wisdom suugests : junk in = junk out.

I'm sure the same logic applies to anything we would use to bury vines or ammend our soil.

7/4/2007 8:47:50 AM

Ohio

Thanks Steve, and thanks for taking the time to explain all that, I learn something everday from this great site, its good having a person like you on here to explain things at my level,lol.

Brooks

7/4/2007 2:58:39 PM

Cornell, Wi

Well put Tremor

7/4/2007 4:24:50 PM

Sheridan . NY

steve yep----that why its used in AGRO-K SKED---craig

7/4/2007 9:34:01 PM

President - GPC

Great Posts Steve, So, Craig/Steve/All, which would be better, applying good AA compost tea 1 day before or or 1 day after a scheduled MOL drench? My receipe has no MOL in it. Thanks and great info.......

7/5/2007 9:02:26 AM

Rhode Island

wiz

put the mol in with the finished ct and apply with you bp

be sure before you get out there to go pp, but not in the ct

pap

7/5/2007 7:35:44 PM