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western PA

I know that many of the pumpkin growers do not use mirical grow due to the high salts.

Can anyone recomend another good water soluble fertilizer to use??

1/30/2007 11:33:15 AM

Montoursville, PA

Agro K's fine line of products.

1/30/2007 11:39:40 AM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

I use miracle grow, sparingly.(I use it right before fair time, to get my zucc's cucc's to produce more fruit.) But I use Fox Farms OPrganics(a little pricey, and being organic, I don't notice the results as quickly with miracle grow.)Bat guano and seaweed from age old organics works well
Any other suggestions?

Capt

1/30/2007 11:40:14 AM

West By God Virginia

Manure or compost tea.

1/30/2007 11:50:53 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

The greenhouse horticultural & floraculture trades rely on the same analysis fertilizers (20-20-20, etc) that are made from better (lower salts) ingredients.

I sell Miller's 20-20-20 Low Chloride for a lot less than most folks pay for Miracle Grow. Less than $1.00 per pound in a 25 lb bag. It pays to find a local wholesaler especially one that grows giants. LOL

1/30/2007 11:10:42 PM

Montoursville, PA

If seriously interested in soil building the chemisty must go because the chemistry kills the biology one is trying to build up. It's that simple.

I believe I am correct that all of the last dozen or so pumpkins over 1400 pounds were grown with less chemisty and more simple basic organic principles. I do not believe you can do both and maintain a sustainable good soil while dumpping more killing elements into the management. I believe that those who have not used less chemistry have dropped from the fold of the very best who use sustainable practices. I do know that many with questions are seeking knowlege from the sustainable ways of others. One thing for sure I know if the sustainable goals are achieved those individuals will have a patch that will continue to produce good results. Basically they seek no secrets because there are none but soil building to replace or even add more basics for a better tomorrow.

1/31/2007 6:06:26 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I'll be the first to agree that soil building is the best way.

The salt content of Miller's 20-20-20LC is lower than Agro-K's 10-8-8. But I don't consider either of these fine materials to be soil injurious unless they are grossly over applied.

1/31/2007 8:27:10 PM

Sheridan . NY

steve whats the salts on the millers--????

1/31/2007 9:03:48 PM

Montoursville, PA

All of the organic readings I have read would say that anyone's manufactured NPK is all salts and advise immediate reduction down to no use what so ever. This is no longer a bunch of rabel raisers speaking. This is today serious and proven talk. It is relatively easy for small patch growers with access to the alternatives to achieve. This may in fact be why the small patch growers are doing so well overall.

1/31/2007 10:41:35 PM

Montoursville, PA

I have very successful green house managers and owners who use lots of manufactured NPK. In such use there is little or no biology consideration what so ever. The goal is to pop out liners and potted goods which are grown fast and marketed for transfer or in some cases a pot of blooming flowers forced for a specific short season use and sales situations. This hardly relates to our pumpkin growing in the least little instance. In fact most grow in a medium with no soil to avoid agriculture rules and regulations.
...One such grower is Applichian Nuserys in Waynesboro Pennsylvania who won their case against the State of Pennsylvania because he used no soil in any of his seventeen acres under glass way back in 1950- 1955. The scope of that can possibly be visualized as fifty two inch liners in a flat with the whole seventeen acres out the door as rooted cuttings several times a year. No seed, no soil, no biology, no agriculture.

1/31/2007 10:55:08 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

This thread wasn't about soil biology. Vader asked specifically ablout soluble fertilizers like Miracle Grow. So to keep his thread on it's own track:

The Miller's 20-20-20 that we stock is .025% which is very low for a high analysis soluble fertilizer. We have access to lower salts but our existing customer base doesn't care to spend the extra money for their applications.

Most of the garbage stuff I see is 2% which is comparable to Scott's Miracle Grow. We can get that too but the small cost savings isn't worth the trouble of inducing more salt related stress on plants especially since some of our clients use the material in greenhouses.

Packaged with water in solution to a 10-10-10 it would be halved to .0125% which I find very acceptable for an all soluble liquid stock solution. Probably compoartable to the 10-8-8.

What is the 10-8-8 CL? It's made of nice high quality ingredients so it must also be quite low in salt. I had a label you gave me but it's not here with me.

2/1/2007 4:26:12 PM

Sheridan . NY

STEVE 10 8 8 is .005 in salts--- its the D.L.-process--craig

2/1/2007 7:36:54 PM