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milford, CT,

Most of the season we have gotten plenty of natural rain on a weekly basis. The last week we went into a heat wave (100 degrees) and I reset my watering timer to water 1/2 hour in the morning and a 1/2 hour at dusk. My weight gains went down 30 % last week. I estimate that 1/2 hour is @ 50 gallon, the patch is 1000 sq ft. I checked all the vines, pumpkins and the stump for disease...looked good. Where do I go from here? I'm unsure if I'm underwatering or overwatering. What methods do other people use to decide how much to water? I'm all ears!

8/5/2006 9:41:02 PM

Montoursville, PA

Set a couple baking tins in the patch. They have relatively straight sides. Mark the half, three quarter and one inch on the inside sides of the tins. Do this to eliminate the estimating. Increase the water by half inches. At this point in the season odds are that you are underwatering.

8/6/2006 8:27:38 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Mark,

We've had WWWWWAAAAAYYYYYY too much rain especially in June but July was very wet too. Hence all of the Fusarium issues right around us this year.

You must have an abundance of suface roots right now. They haven't needed to go looking for water this year, so the plants will be more prone to drought as a result.

Your best bet is a real-deal soil coring tool. Swing by & I'll let you use one.

8/6/2006 10:41:59 PM

Montoursville, PA

In this area the rains have been one to three inches at a time which yeilds deep watering. If drainage is good there will be no Fusarium in soil with no other problems. Deep watering encourages deep rooting with less reaching to the top few inches, for water.

In past years I have had Fusarium. The cure was the use of teas both anaerobic and aerobic alternated. This year in a patch that for three years came down with Fusarium there is no signs of Fusarium in spite of my natural and my added deep watering practice. The Fusarium spore are still there. They are simply ballanced in the total biological package which builds the ballance and shows the good controlling the bad. There can be no other reasoning. There have been no other changes and no chemical or other biological controlls added. The theory, of building a healthy soil is indeed the only sustainable practice. Simple as it may sound if it looks good, smells good, and grows good the mystery, of good biological conditions are, in controll. The final statement assumes you just love the smell, of manure teas, their fermentation and the process, to use them. :)

8/7/2006 7:36:15 AM

President - GPC

Ok Tremor,
Please splain it to me.........real-deal coring tool...... anything like a lawn areator? Or is this a secret invention?

8/7/2006 2:12:39 PM

milford, CT,

I believe nature answered my question...we got an inch of rain last night and she grew 33 lbs last night. I guess I was underwatering! I will set my timer to water 2- 1/2 hour cyles per day unless it rains that day. That is approximately 100 gallons per day using T-Tape. Thanks for the input guys...Mark

8/7/2006 5:05:47 PM

milford, CT,

That should have read two cycles a day watering 1/2 hour each. Was a little confusing the way I typed it.

8/7/2006 5:07:18 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

The soil coring tool I use in the patch is a hollow stainless steel tube with a welded "T" handle. The tube is 3/4" in diameter & 22" long. The business end is sharpened around the edges. A few inches up the shaft there is a cut-out area of 1'2 the diameter. Hence if drawing a soil test sample, the resulting core may be removed. Likewise when checking soil moisture.

We've been VERY dry the past 2 weeks after a very long wet period. But Mark found this out....the hard way...."moderation" grasshopper. LOL

8/7/2006 10:43:59 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Here is a picture of the same soil coring tool. Some call it a "soil probe".

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/ukturf/images/soil%20probe.jpg

8/7/2006 10:45:42 PM

milford, CT,

The toughest part of growing AG's for me has been solving the mystery of running the fine line between watering too much and causing disease to flourish and underwatering causing a slower than optimal growth rate. With plenty of season left I am hoping to come up with a method of better managing this balance for future years so as to avoid the guess work. Keeping good daily data defininetly has been helpful. I've been keeping track of rain,daily temps,daily and 5-day weight gains. What i'm looking for are correlations and patterns amongst the data. Mark

8/8/2006 1:19:20 PM

President - GPC

Tremor,.....Master,
Do you have to use a sledge hammer to drive it down that far in the soil?. In Colorado we would have to use hydralics if we needed to drive down 2-3 feet. maybe even dynamite. I know Larue calls for not tilling the soil, I dont think we could get away with that here as soil is like concrete here. I would love to get my soil that way...Guess I need more peat eh?

8/8/2006 2:35:25 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Master???...Years ago I was soil testing Yankee Stadium in February & shadowy right field was frozen solid so "yes", I resorted to pounding it in with a hammer to get the cores. Ruined the handle too. Since then I'd say I've destroyed or just worn out another half dozen.

If patch soils in Coloroado need a hammer in-season then we have bigger issues that just water.....YIKES!

8/8/2006 4:44:07 PM

Mocksville, NC

ive been told scrape 1st inc of soil away grab a handfull sqeeze if water drips way to wet, if the soil holds firmly into a ball, and doent drip (to wet) If the ball of dirt is sqeezed, and holds yet you can crumble you are perfect!
Not rocket science, but a very very good HH uses this method. His Grandma tought him. Mr Jack Larue.

8/8/2006 5:05:09 PM

President - GPC

Master!!!.....lol you said grasshopper.... Master LongBeard too calls me grasshopper....Yes we do have soil issues abound, generally clay/rock... here. Depends how much they have scraped off prior to building on the land. In Larues letter I noted his do not till suggestion and would love not to till, very time consuming. But I till twice a year, fall after all is cleaned up and early spring. Adding leaves in the fall ( sheep and peat/leaves/apples/coffee grounds/egg shells/ last year) and then manure/compost/sand/pine needles/more grounds in the spring. Plus this year Craigs pre-program (AGro-K) Even though my soil rated pretty good by Craig, I still have to till to allow to get the seeds in the ground. I have to, its pretty hard after the winter. Then after the hail....it was pounded down hard!! Guess I need a lot more peat....I have raised this soil up 18" so far. I have a picture on the coloradopumpkins.com that shows my dirt (10 years ago) in a StarBucks cup.....its not latte, tan sandstone dirt.....a great drain tile underneath my semiclay organic clay. How much more should I add....Sand? Peat?

8/9/2006 2:01:28 PM

Sloughhouse, CA

I to have clay soil. I have build up my soil about 4inches. Each yr. I add more. When I planted the asparagus I dug a deep hole with the tractor and then filled in with mulch.

8/9/2006 4:59:25 PM

Abbotsford, B.C

Da Wiz...

what exactly are the "18 inches" that you have added? I find it hard to believe that you could add that much to the soil and still have clay soil; in effect, it should be like a giant raised bed now. I must suspect that perhaps some of the soil/ammendments you have been adding contain clay soil? Just an idea.

Cameron

P.S. I read somewhere that if you have clay soil and you want to change it, you can add 4 inches of sand to it to ammend it for better drainage. If you do anything less than 4 inches, as we should all know by now, sand + clay = concrete. If you care to pay for that much sand to be brought in, that is certainly an option... and peat moss is almost always beneficial to the soil as well.

8/10/2006 9:03:37 PM

Midwest

Da Wiz: Why change to more sandy soil? Clay soil is not that bad... several benefits from clay soils. Sandy soils I think are hard to manage and keep nutrients, etc...

8/11/2006 1:36:07 PM

President - GPC

I have been wanted more tilth in the fall, I have added mostly compost/ cow / some sheep and peat/ but the ground cow is a mixture of fine sand, cow, peat, wood, whatever the vendor has ground up. DOnt get me wrong the soil is vastly improved but towards the end of the year its hard again after the organics break down and it needs tilling agin. I cant imagine how I could plant without tilling.

8/16/2006 10:57:09 AM

Ohio

Tremor, I have a 1/4 inch solid probe that I use for hunting old privies with,would that still work even though its solid and will be smashing the soil to make a hole with? or should I just use one like you are talking about that will remove the dirt when probing?

Brooks

8/23/2006 2:28:47 AM

ENGLAND

Brooks. Ideally you need a core sampler tool/probe like this one.. http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=116

Regards
Mike

8/23/2006 5:36:01 AM

Ohio

Milford, Sorry for hijacking your post a bit.Thanks Mike,Im thinking about giing it a try on my pumpkins that have slowed down a bit. Is there any place populat that sells these like a lowes or walmart maybe? Im pretty sure I can getone atr a local nursery but ya pay a arm and a leg.

Brooks

8/23/2006 9:14:37 AM

ENGLAND

Brooks. If you have a golf course near by give the head green keeper, or superintendant as i think you call it over there, a call and ask if they have one that you might borrow. Either that or get some stainless tube, get someone to weld a tube on the end to form a T, grind a 6 to 8 inch section out of the side of the tube about 2 inches from the end. Then grind the end of the tube, that is to be pushed into the ground, to form a sharp edge. Much easier to buy one though LOL.

8/23/2006 4:45:42 PM