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Macomb County

Let's use a Howden for an example instead. Which are genetically programmed to achieve an average weight of 20-30lbs and that gene switches off and their ripening gene switches on. And there's nothing you or I can do. We can't make it not switch off and grow to 40lbs or 80lbs. That's what it's genetically programmed to do, achieve 20-30 and start to ripen. All we as growers can do is try to coax it to achieve it's full 30lb weight. Ags are no different. I don't care if you are super grower with a Ph. D. The potential is in the seed. And not every seed. The seed you have. Tall parents give birth to short children and short parents give birth to tall child and some times children just like them. If you reach in the gene pool and randomly pull out a seed to plant, which is all you can do, and your individual seed is genetically programmed to attain 800lbs tops? You can kill yourself, frustrate yourself, hate yourself, pull your hair out, go to every length and extreme, but you can't make your plant produce a 900lb pumpking, let alone a 1000lb pumpkin or 1200lber. I can't judge anyone on this site based on weight alone. Because how do I know a lesser grower didn't beat a better grower, only because the lesser grower had a lot better genetics in his seed? Further, that in the hands of the better grower, the lesser grower's better seed would have been a 1200lb pumpkin and not the 1000lb it turned out to be? Consistent is the leading sign of a great grower, year in and year out. He or she gets a respectable Ag of 400-1000lbs. Depending on the seed.

8/4/2005 6:22:54 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I was wondering the same thing. Jack Larue had several pumpkins over 1000 lbs. last year. I think he also had a few in the 700-800 lb. range(someone correct me if I'm wrong). I was wondering if it was mostly in part to genetics(the wide weight range). Or if these plants, that produced lighter pumpkins, were in less ideal areas, or had other disadvantages, to lead to smaller pumpkins.
I also wonder how important keeping the correct female is. Is there quite a bit of difference in the potential of individual females on the same plant?

8/4/2005 7:11:42 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

ahhh Jack we grow 70lb howdens in our patch...

8/4/2005 10:47:51 PM

Macomb County

Shannon, sorry I called you Jim last time, is that a standard Howden or an enhanced strain such as Howden Biggie? But either way, you prove the point that all we can do as growers is coax our plants to reach their full genetic potential. You don't grow 80, 100 or 200lb Howdens at the same time because it's beyond their genetic potential. Right Doug, just like 2 tall parents don't automatically guarantee a tall child, what can you do if you happen to get the seed that's genetically the runt of the litter? It's like if Larue would have only had the space to plant those that produced 700-800lbers and it was just his luck to have picked those seeds of them all. Weight is a real crap shoot. A thing to get in mind is what shows up as a 10lb variation in a strain like Howden is magnified into 100's of lbs variation in Ags. Funny that my goal was to try to help growers stop stressing and lighten up and stop giving themselves an inferioty complex by showing I do a number of things outside the norm or less than ideally and still get a respectable result. You don't have to be perfect, just merely informed.

8/5/2005 6:02:08 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Funny thing about your theory Jack is that it doesn't work.
The last time I checked they awarded prizes to the biggest pumpkin growers at Port Elgin and any other GPC site...... Respectable size growers have no reason to waste time entering a competition that they can't win.

Weight is not a crap shoot. We have the AGGC to keep track of potential large progeny producers.

There is no luck involved when you are talking about the Larues or Eatons of the AGP world. These guys are in fact a great growers.

Morty, the facts are pretty clear to all the regular posters here at BP.com. You should be posting in the new grower area stating your case and backing everything you say with research reports or links to pages the can refute what others are writing. Your incessant need to inform others of your carefree no care growing style is interesting but you lack any support from the throng of growers here at BP.com.

8/5/2005 3:09:39 PM

Hermitage, Pa

"Weight is not a crap shoot. We have the AGGC to keep track of potential large progeny producers."

I disagree to a point. You take 200 seeds from the same quality pumpkin and plant them in the same growing area/care they will produce 200 different weights. You might have 10-20 seeds per pumpkin that produce monsters, 50-100 seeds that produce good pumpkins over 600lbs. An the rest produce under 500lbs.Same with color to a degree. Many known orange producers have kicked out white/squash to the growers surpise. I would think that growing many plants will increase your chances of getting the best genitics. Any one know how many plants these guys tend to plant? I bet it is more than 5. Rick

8/5/2005 3:25:53 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Rick, Yes you are correct to a point. The statistics in the AGGC are another resource tool at the growers disposal.

I would however, rather plant a proven seed any day.... Heavy hitters believe it too....This seed debate has gone on for a long, long time here at BP.com and it all boils down to the lack of true science about AGP's. We just don't know what we don't know.

I have called numerous times for links that backup information.....Show me the Money!

Heavy hitters are what they are because they have the best seeds and the best techniques. It takes a few years to become a Journeyman. As for me I'm still waiting for Journeyman status and dreaming of one day becomiing a heavy hitter...It could take years

8/6/2005 1:18:44 AM

Hermitage, Pa

Good points Kahuna3. When the same guys produce large pumpkins year after year they have mastered their technique. Odds are better to go with the proven seeds. Rick

8/6/2005 6:27:38 AM